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What even is "control"?

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#1 Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 09:57

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning everyone

Im no stranger to this place, trying to give up gambling... It reassures me a little that I've been through this process before, I know that the frequent urges to gamble will pass the longer time goes on and that they will become less intense, and more sparesly spread. It doesn't make my urge to gamble right this second any easier though..

I've tried and failed twice to stop gambling. The reason being - control. I give up gambling really easily and live my life very well. 2/3 months later, 2/3 months clean, I think that I have control of it back and I think "just put £1 bets on" and everything will be fine. Hmm..

So thats how I started living my "controlled" gambling life about 18 months ago. £10 in the account after 4 months off, 2 x £1 bets, of course the first one would win. I was back, I was hooked, the buzz. And slowly but surely my grip on control loosened, even with the controls in place on my account (£25 deposit limit per week, £100 per month) - I was losing £100 per month but I was in control, when I lost I stepped away etc.

I had found my happy medium as a compulsive gambler with a need to gamble, but also remaining in control and within limits. Until past weekend just gone, old habits do die hard. Champions league final, english team in it, I think I've found a cert bet, money is in my account and the grass is green. £200 goes on said bet, which doesnt happen. ****. £200 bet by making a new account with a bookie I'd never even heard of. Suddenly in a spiral of what can only be described as a complete loss of control, I've lost £2k.

£2k in a matter of hours.F***.

So I'm back to the point I thought I would never be at, so now I know I could go back and stick to  my £100 a month as previously and be fine, but who knows how long for? What will the next time cost me where I lose control? My job? My girlfriend? My life.

So I'm staying away, I have told my OH about stopping which she supports. I don't think I could do it without her really, I have goals in place financially, I have plans for my spare time, more importantly - I have self excluded and are committed. Going to try a councellor and also GA meetings.

Upon reflection, the past two times I have stopped, I've never truly intended on stopping. I've intended on putting it to bed for a while to continue in a logical, controlled matter. But that just hasn't happened and as such, Its either living life in this pit of misery, money goes hand to mouth, any other money goes hand to bookies fat **** pockets. Or its living a life gamble free, enjoying relationships, family, experiences.

For now, over and out. I'll likely try and update this daily with thoughts.

Thanks

E.

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 10:16

Leedsfan333

Joined:
2018-05-30

 

Thank you for posting and that has totally answered my question (although I knew the answer already) of can I put my old £2 football accumulator on. That person who could sit in the pub watching out for my teams score and have a fun bet isn’t me anymore. Like you say even if you will that £2 will turn into a fiver, £10 and the rest. 

It’s going to be very strange come August when my weekends don’t revolve around 3-5pm on a Saturday afternoon. I will miss it though, not gonna lie I fooled myself that football betting required skill and knowledge unlike roulette or scratchcards. 

Sound like you know what to do now though or what not to do? All the best, you have already come so far so don’t beat yourself up about it and start again.  

Good luck 

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 10:27

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Leedsfan, we have something in common. Neither of us know what depresses us more. Gambling (and losing!) or having to suffer and watch Leeds United. As a season ticket holder for football and rugby I think that will be my biggest challenge but we will see what happens!

If its football that was your venom (same with me) then nows a good time to stop really. That being said, today is always a good time to stop, never tomorrow! August will be weird, espeically at the games, although Im hoping that they matter slightly less and I can enjoy the game, the sport, the spectacle instead of actually not enjoying it at times.

E

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 10:30

ITDamo

Joined:
2016-01-26

Hi Egdam,

Sounds like you are making the right decisions and counselling and GA are certainly 2 ways of helping you get to where you want to be.

Sounds like online is your vice so get yourself registered with gamstop where you can get yourself excluded for up to 5 years from all uk registered online betting companies.

Wish you the best.
Damo

 

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 10:42

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

ITDamo wrote:

Sounds like online is your vice so get yourself registered with gamstop where you can get yourself excluded for up to 5 years from all uk registered online betting companies.

^ Is Gamstop a recent thing - I've certainly never heard of it before now.

Registering as we speak.

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 11:07

ITDamo

Joined:
2016-01-26

Yes very...only been available the last few weeks and for me for anyone serious about stopping should do it.
I had a little bit of hassle registering but I think thats because ive moved house a couple of times in the last couple of years.....worth it though.

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 13:01

cardhue

Joined:
2013-01-18

who knows quite why controlled gambling never works. Maybe it’s because when you’re still gambling you don’t truly accept your problems in life.

and without true acceptance you don’t embrace change. You just bumble along as before, papering over the cracks.

Addiction is a symptom of something else. If your approach is to control, then you’re really missing the point.

On the other hand with acceptance, and honesty, can come change. And genuine change  might seem scary but the results are exhilarating. You can’t taste those results yet, but if you commit to change then you will get there. This requires a change in mindset away from instant gratification towards long term wellbeing. A move towards having faith in yourself.

From your posts you’re making the right moves. Stick with and follow through.

Louis

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 13:09

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

ITDamo wrote:

Yes very...only been available the last few weeks and for me for anyone serious about stopping should do it.
I had a little bit of hassle registering but I think thats because ive moved house a couple of times in the last couple of years.....worth it though.

have just registered - thank you!

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 13:11

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Thanks Louis,

This is something deep down I probably knew but didn't want to accept. I wont preach to the converted about how much a buzz gambling can be eh. When its good you don't want it to stop, when its bad its what takes over and (ultimately) ruins your life/friendships/relationships.

Posted on:
Fri, 01/06/2018 - 18:58

Leedsfan333

Joined:
2018-05-30

 

 

Egdam wrote:

Leedsfan, we have something in common. Neither of us know what depresses us more. Gambling (and losing!) or having to suffer and watch Leeds United. As a season ticket holder for football and rugby I think that will be my biggest challenge but we will see what happens!

If its football that was your venom (same with me) then nows a good time to stop really. That being said, today is always a good time to stop, never tomorrow! August will be weird, espeically at the games, although Im hoping that they matter slightly less and I can enjoy the game, the sport, the spectacle instead of actually not enjoying it at times.

E

Ah a fellow Leeds fan - like I said in another thread being a Leeds fan prepared me for the constant losing!  I knew I had a problem when I barely looked at our results anymore just the games I had money on. (I never bet on Leeds even I’m not that stupid :-)) I actually think having money to go to games again will help me, seeing my friends not being glued to my phone etc. 

Think the World Cup May be an obstical but I’m gonna get myselfout and not be glued to games I’m not really that interested in. 

Hope things are looking clearer for you now. 

MOT - we can do this!

Posted on:
Tue, 05/06/2018 - 09:39

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning - Tuesday morning to be precise and exactly 1 week GF. First milestone.

Given my previous attempts to stop and my absolute certainty within myself that I cannot be a controlled gambler, I have accepted that I am a compulsive gambler with an addiction. Whilst that makes me feel shame, it has also allowed me to see gambling for what it is, a true evil.

I've been reading the book - the easy way to stop gambling - as recommended a couple of times by other people here. It is simply wonderful and I imagine will be a very very useful tool. It has actually taken away any desire to gamble whatsoever. I went to a rugby match the weekend just gone, to enjoy the sport, the spectacle etc. Not to gamble! I am lucky enough to have somehow got myself some free tickets to the Tyson Fury fight this weekend - I am hoping, no desire to gamble on it.

Keep it sweet, MOT

E

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1782124489/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Posted on:
Wed, 06/06/2018 - 08:23

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Good morning all, another day, another dollar!

Was going to try and keep up with this daily but we will see what happens. Im up to chapter 7 of the book above, its a VERY good read thus far. Couple of busy days at work and subsequent busy evenings ensue, which im happy for really.

E

Posted on:
Thu, 07/06/2018 - 08:57

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all,

Started filling my time where possible, Im a big gamer also so I have started attending my local game store which has a "Belong" arena, I've made one of the competetive teams so for the next 7+ weeks I'll be competing in their clash league. I also plan on going 1/2 more times per week to fill the gap.

E

Posted on:
Fri, 08/06/2018 - 10:32

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all,

Another day another dollar - I know I keep saying that but day by day is how I'm measuring this. I make it 10 days today. Actually flown by. Still reading the book mentioned above, its worth it. Trust me, the two main themes are

- It isn't hard to quit gambling (if you believe it is, its easier to fail)

- you're not losing out on something by not gambling, gambling gives "false" pleasure that once has passed the body craves more, once you believe you're gaining something by not gambling, you have no desire to gamble.

Its hard to contextualise in one para so I suggest reading it. However it does seem to be working and the desire is deminishing.

Im self excluded, so I cant gamble to my poison of internet betting - even if I wanted to. I have no intention on any other form of gambling either. I do feel like I'm losing out on casinos - whilst I have never gone over the top at all with casinos, I really like blackjack and in my mind its always been entertainment. I like the odds and the mechanics of the game rather than the win/loss on the money part. For example some weekends I could screw hundreds on online betting, but blackjack I play my £20, sit there for 3 hours and it doesn't bother me if Im at £0, £20, or £40 at the end of the night. I play for the game and the entertainment. I maybe have gone to casinos 3/4 times a year as an entertainment purpose (the same as a cinema, ice skating, etc.)

THAT BEINGSAID... I am very weary and I have no intentions to go to a casino at all, if I do (for example with friends if they are going) - I will not gamble as I appreciate how easy it is to change poison from internet betting to cards etc. The gambling trap exists in all forms of gambling.

Quick question to anyone reading this, would you participate in the office sweepstake for the world cup? In its purest form it is gambling, in a more liberal view - its a bit of fun in an office environment that will cost £2 and will absolutely not get "out of control" seeing as it is just one sweepstake..

E

Posted on:
Fri, 08/06/2018 - 13:29

ITDamo

Joined:
2016-01-26

Hi Egdam,

Personally I wont get involved with any type of betting...sweepstake, lottery or even a football card with my sons football team. I would rather donate the cash if it came to it.

This is the first time I have went at things this way and it is the longest I have been without gambling.

I just cant see the benefit of doing the sweepstake, or in going back to the casino at some point on the future. Got more to lose than gain for me.

As you know its not one size fits all though and im sure others will disagree with me.

Damo

Posted on:
Fri, 08/06/2018 - 13:47

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Damo - thats the way I am leaning. Genuinely at this point don't see any benefit to doing it. I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. Plus I'll be supporting England until they get knocked out and then it will be Belguim. No need to have any money on it!!

E

Posted on:
Fri, 08/06/2018 - 14:13

ITDamo

Joined:
2016-01-26

I am Scottish so I will be supporting the other 31 teams :)

Damo

Posted on:
Mon, 11/06/2018 - 14:32

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Checking in guys! Went to the Tyson Fury fight at the weekend, all the lads I was with putting their bets on and I stayed GF.

That is a victory in my book. I enjoyed myself, especially considering I hadn't bet. It does hurt a bit tho when you give your opinion to your mate and he goes and puts a bet on it, then it comes in (I said fury in the 4th..) - he got a few rounds in afterwards.

The important thing was staying GF and enjoying staying GF for me. I didn't need/want to gamble - desire did flare up slightly but I put that to bed early on. Im self excluded even if I wanted to.

Other than that I've been putting some effort into running the past 13 days GF as I had already signed up for a local 10k charity run in my area. For a lad thats nearly 17 stone I put the shift in and did it in 1:19 which I was buzzing about, thinking about a half marathon in September now. Im trying to channel energy that would have been spent gambling into other stuff.

Over and out for today, from a very tired and achy E. (Who knew the very sides of your ankles can be in pain?!?)

E

Posted on:
Thu, 14/06/2018 - 11:34

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Good morning. (Just). 16 days GF today, not looking back! Enjoy your days

Posted on:
Sat, 16/06/2018 - 06:29

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all - 18 days today. Taking it day by day, sporting event by sporting event. Seeing how it goes really although fully confident that gambling is behind me now. Hope you're all well.

Posted on:
Mon, 18/06/2018 - 08:33

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Good morning all, hope you all had a good weekend and feeling well. Im nearly 3 weeks gamble free now. A real acheivment in my book! Especially with a full weekend of rugby and world cup!!!

 

Enjoy your days

E

Posted on:
Tue, 19/06/2018 - 08:41

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all, Someone reply? (LOL) I'm literally just chatting pure **** to myself.

Anyway, watched the England win with the girlfriend last night, it matters exactly the same as when theres a bet on it. No difference for me, I got exactly the same enjoyment! In fact probably more enjoyment by not betting on it. I am 3 weeks gamble free now - feels like a bloody big acheivment for me. Supposedly it takes 3 weeks to a month to break a habit.

Not that I have a habit, I have an addiction, thats why I'm here.

I did some thinking last night, about the whole thing. Speaking to my other half about money (she doesn't have control of my money however I am accountable, I show her statements etc and she has seen my budgets). Thinking about the changes I've made since going gamble free. Here's what I've come up with

  1. I broke a level of trust by gambling, lying, worming out of things with the OH. I am slowly rebuilding that. This includes having more time spent with her and a refreshing feeling of not needing to lie or "misplace" the truth as I would so often convince myself.
  2. The time needs to be filled, so I have been going running and also applied to be a volunteer for 2 different charities. This has had health and moral benefits for myself. I'm feeling fitter, happier and all round just better.
  3. Weird side benefit I didn't expect, I'm losing weight. Coupled with the running above, I've found out that I'm eating healthier and living a better lifestyle. No more late nights gamling on Peruvian league 2 football and missing sleep, no more staying in to watch event X,Y,Z that I'm only interested in because of the bet [I would have ordered takeaway and had sweets, drinks, crisps, cake, the lot].
  4. Life is clearer, I have started to appreciate certain things more and have less eratic mood swings. I can make changes such as walking to the shops instead of driving to enjoy the fresh air and such like, I dont need to be back to make a kick off.
  5. Quitting gambling can be easy with the right mentality. You're NOT losing out on anything, gambling replaces a void that was in your life at a certain point in time. Therefore stop gambling and sort the void out, there should be no desire to gamble.
  6. Finances are clearer. Theres no bending money here to put a bet on to create an issue later. I have a budget, I stick to it, I will pay all debt off within 2 years (some is not gambling debt - im in my 20's, I also drank too much and went on holidays higher than my pay grade.. )

         E

Posted on:
Wed, 20/06/2018 - 10:28

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Daily update

Tired, gamble free.

Posted on:
Thu, 21/06/2018 - 22:04

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Thursday has hit. I’m ill day watching the World Cup. Usually it would be a day betting on horses or dogs or whatever’s on! Not today. I’m skint till monday which is payday tho, currently no urges but expecting some on Monday. 

Posted on:
Fri, 22/06/2018 - 22:10

sjw

Joined:
2017-10-27

Hello Egdam,

People do read these boards more than you think. I for one read every single new post for the first few months!

You don't always get a reply but what you say and comment to others helps yourself and people that may never reply to you more than you might think. If nothing else a diary is a great space to just get things down on paper. I often came back to read my own words after a few days/weeks/months to see the changes in myself.

Hope you are feeling better and are still GF. Keep making the right choices and life gets better.

Have a good weekend.

All the best.

Posted on:
Mon, 25/06/2018 - 10:47

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

SJW

Thanks! I understand. Im using this more as diary now rather than anything else. I have accountability in the following order;

  1. To myself
  2. To my simply wonderful OH
  3. To this thread - to anyone who reads
  4. To the challenge threads

I am still GF, it was 4 weeks ago today I had my last two bets, one on greyhounds and one on some European division2 league, I cannot remember but neither won. Im feeling quite victorious this morning. I have been paid and all of the right people/bills/things have been paid today, rent, family that I owe money to and creditors. I have set £300 aside for myself for the month and I have money left over that is saving for the rent deposit on our next house. A big thing on here is giving OH control of money, which my OH declined when I offered, instead I am simply accountable and will be showing her bank statements etc and if there is any betting she is under the instruction to leave me there and then (and she will).

The joyous mood continues when I recap where I am at. Im an avid lover of a lot of sports which actually probably created a fairly bad mix when I am also a complusive gambler. However that being said I have had the following acheivements without one single bet.

  • Attended the Tyson Fury comeback fight
  • Attended 3 rugby matches
  • Attended England at Elland Road in the warm up friendly
  • Watched multiple world cup games

I've enjoyed them a lot more without needing a bet on, weirdly, it just serves to think that the gambling "buzz" is completely a false high and is filling a void that is created, only by gambling. Thus keeping compulsive gamblers in the trap that only gambling creates. Try to objectify that for what it is.

Instead, now in life I do not have a void because I don't gamble. Gambling was creating the void that I thought only gambling could fill. I am happy, I enjoy sporting occasions for what they are, very high level and talented people putting their bodies on the line for club, country, titles, or in Tyson Fury's case, for a laugh. [Not a big fan of him, but I like boxing and the tickets were free haha!!!]

It would be a lie to say I don't think about betting, because I do. What I think about is how much it ruined my life so far and that prompts me back to where I need to be. My existing [pre self exclusion] bets on the world cup have nearly all lost. I had one on Panama not to score at all in the WC, thank you England for that one. Any winnings would only have been a major trigger.

If I can do it, so can anyone else reading this.

E

Posted on:
Tue, 26/06/2018 - 10:13

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning, 4 weeks today - 28 days. Quite excited by the big 30 on Thursday!

Unfortunately my Granddad passed last night which hasnt been an ideal start to today. It wasn't totally unexpected but still not the best.

E

Posted on:
Wed, 27/06/2018 - 10:31

Forum admin

Joined:
2010-11-01

Dear Egdam,

congratulations on 29 days gambling free, keep up the good work.

Really sorry to hear about your Granddad passing,  wishing you and your family much strength in this sad time.

All the best,

Eva

Forum Admin

Posted on:
Fri, 29/06/2018 - 07:53

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all - Im going to stop fully counting the days I think. I am gamble free and that is all I am thinking. Day by day.

Another successful day yesterday, another one will be had today.

E

Posted on:
Sat, 30/06/2018 - 18:10

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Evening all - hows everyone. Checking in, still gamble free. Replacing the empty time as much as I can at the moment.

Posted on:
Mon, 02/07/2018 - 08:38

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Another Monday morning, another week GF. Weeks are passing as what days used to in terms of the urges to gamble. Which is good, they are few and far between

Posted on:
Mon, 02/07/2018 - 13:38

Martin67

Joined:
2010-08-17

Hi egdam, it sounds like you're doing well. I got to a point where I stopped counting the days as well. In a weird way, actually counting the days reminded me of the addiction too much and I felt it was always on my mind. Sometimes the best thing to do is almost try and "forget" we're addicted and just live day to day like as normal. 

Also, sorry to read about your granddad. All the best. 

Posted on:
Tue, 03/07/2018 - 14:01

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Hi Martin,

Im doing very well. This has been the easiest time I have ever quit. I think its largely due to that book that I've mentioned above. its very good adn very clever.

Agreed - the more I remind myself of the days, the more I think about it. Although thats ok, im not going to go running around pretending gambling doesnt exist, because it does. Its everywhere. Something as simple as a raffle is a gamble in a pure form. I am accepting living my life with it surrounding (especially given my love of sport).

E

Posted on:
Thu, 05/07/2018 - 10:58

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Checking in. Its been 2 days, 2 more GF days :) How is everyone??

Posted on:
Thu, 12/07/2018 - 08:01

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all, sorry for the lack of posts. Been really busy at work and stuff. Im still gamble free - boom boom!!

Got a lot to talk about when i get the chance.

E

Posted on:
Mon, 16/07/2018 - 07:49

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all

Had a nutty time recently. Health scares, family bereavement, moving house. Its all accumulated in me being very stressed out. I do however think gambling is out of my system, for good. I havent turned to or even thought about gambling.

I won the prediction competition that I was in at work for the WC before I became gamble free. £100 was a nice win from that but has not triggered me, neither has the cash coming in from winning bets on WC (again placed pre GF). It will all accumulate to take the GF away I think.

Im making plans for later in the year also, I am going on a solo holiday to Sweden, I want to see the world. I might as well whilst I am young. I am not paying hundreds per month on gambling anymore. Instead I can sit sweetly knowing that I can go on 3/4 holidays per year, treat the OH, be financially secure. Trust me, if you haven't given up gambling yet, do it. Its the best thing you can do, you're not losing out on anything, in fact you will gain so much from life.

My next thing to give us is sugar. I think that might be harder than gambling for me, but maybe not. Both things I have been addicted to for years. I will keep everyone updated on my sugar situation lol.

E

Posted on:
Tue, 17/07/2018 - 07:52

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all, 50th GF day today. Cause for celebration.

BOOM

E

Posted on:
Fri, 27/07/2018 - 07:57

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Good morning all.

10 days since I last checked in, (in this thread at least anyway). i've been super ridiculously busy, but I've been enjoying gamble free life!

this is my third payday gamble free. I am paying significant amounts of my income towards my gambling debts each month. As I'm now in a debt management plan [have been for a year or so actually]. But I've been putting away some of my savings each month and on this third payday had enough to treat myself to a gaming PC with the money I've saved from not gambling.

Not too bad aye.

There are so many positives to be gained from quitting gamblign that I just couldn't see until before now. I move house over the next week or so, I dont expect to be on much. But note, I've now got a clear head and can see sense. Happily having not gambled for so long.

Posted on:
Fri, 03/08/2018 - 08:48

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Morning all.

Sorry for lack of updates. Im still GF, the book (the easy way) worked a dream. No cravings at all.

Moved house this week - much nicer house. Enjoying the finer things in life

E

Posted on:
Fri, 10/08/2018 - 09:41

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Wow, so over 2 months since I joined and posted. Thats 3 paydays since, I've got to say that in my opinion. Quitting gambling is all around momentum. Once you realise that when you quit, you're not missing out on anything, you're gaining, then you stay gamble free for a day.

You build some momentum.

Day turns into a week,

Week turns into a month and so on.

E

Posted on:
Fri, 31/08/2018 - 08:15

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Wow so 3 weeks since I updated this.

So time for a heafty "pour your heart out" update.

They say 90 days to break an addiction, well I hit that Sunday. I can honestly say that I hardly ever think about gambling anymore. I've never felt so free.

Gambling wasn't about money for me (apart from the few and far between seirous losses). It was about time, health, happiness, family. I have replaced the gambling time with those things. I spent [or saved] the moeny that I'd have spent gambling on worthwile things however, actual hobbies and interests, hobbies.

I may sound like a broken record, but the easy way book really REALLY helped me. The psychological aspect of it, the behaviour and thoughts around gambling are what was affecting me and seeing gamblign for what it actually is (a false pleasure) helped.

Thanks

E

Posted on:
Thu, 06/09/2018 - 10:23

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

If Im not mistaken, I smashed through 100 days this week :D

Posted on:
Thu, 06/09/2018 - 20:38

Forum admin

Joined:
2010-11-01

Hi Edgam,

congratulations on 100 days gamble free!

Keep up the good work and keep posting.

All the very best,

Eva

Forum Admin

Posted on:
Thu, 06/09/2018 - 20:48

sjw

Joined:
2017-10-27

Congrats Egdam, 100 days is a very nice milestone to hit. Just like any other day you have to be careful but you've shown everyone and yourself that you can do it.

Keep making everyday count!

All the best.

Posted on:
Tue, 11/09/2018 - 07:59

Egdam

Joined:
2018-06-01

Thanks both,

I got there, im still GF and in honesty im not even thinking about gambling. I just read "problem gambling" on this site as "protein gains" weirdly. (It is 7am!!)