Am I relapsing?

Hi Andy1503 

Thanks for posting and sharing some of your story . 

We would like to support you would recommend you call our HelpLine on 0808 8020 133 or talk to one of our advisers via our  NetLine .

It is great that you have received support in the past for compulsive gambling and that you are at a better place with things now .

Whereas some people feel that poker is more a game of skill it can still be extremely addictive and people obviously lose large sums of money playing .

You will also be surrounded by gambling in the places where you play , whether that be in establishments or online which leaves you vulnerable to the possibility of slipping back into other forms of gambling. 

One of our advisers looks forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards
Kirk

Forum Admin

Hi Andy1503,

I always love a debate and I use Gamblers Anonymous as my guide. I'm fifty now, been gambling since I was about six and been in and out of GA rooms since I was seventeen.

When I attend meetings I do not gamble. When I stop going for a while,  normally because life is on me and my addict is talking to me, I relapse and gamble. If you want an experiment I've got over thirty years in the GA rooms as evidence.

GA believes in total abstinence, and as our fellowship came from the AA fellowship, the same applies to drinking.

It doesn't matter what your type of betting was, we don't do anything. No lottery, no raffle tickets, no slots, poker, nothing. Not even a toss of a coin. We've found that one type of betting eventually leads to another, just as you have found with just playing poker to now doing online BJ and roulette.

As a compulsive gambler, I could not have one bet or control my gambling. The only time I believed this was when I wasn't ready to put my gambling down. For all my intentions, my willpower alone isn't enough to control my gambling. Loss of money, jobs, family, marriage, even loss of my freedom are proof for me that I can't control a single bet. 

We call it the dreamworld of the compulsive gambler. You believe that you can make a living by playing cards rather than normal working. Some people can, but they're not compulsive gamblers.

As for relapsing, once you've been around this illness for a while, you come to realise that gambling isn't the problem. You are the problem and gambling is your release or symptom of your own problems. By working a recovery program, not just abstaining from a bet, you are able to spot the signs of a relapse before it turns into a bet.

So, to conclude, I do not believe it possible to have a problem and control it and it is only going to cause more damage long term if you believe that. Imagine if you won, like you have? Did you manage to walk away and stay away? No, because you can't. Once you accept that and that gambling has you beat, then you can start to get well.

Hope that helps.

Chris.

Hi Andy,

In this situation I can only comment on my own experiences and what I have read on here for close to a decade.

First of all me. I had quit gambling for over 4 years and life was great. I had paid of debts and had money saved. I stupidly placed a bet when out with friends on opening day of a new season while drinking. I continued to gamble for months because I was winning and although I knew I shouldnt it seemed good. Until I started losing. Once I started losing all the same old traits of being a compulsive gambler came back to haunt me - no control, not caring about consequences until I found myself in far, far worse debt than the debt that brought me here in the first place. I was a broken, scared man when I came back.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody on this forum who had entered recovery and abstinence could go on to share a positive experience of returning to gambling. It always ends in disaster and, it gets progressively worse.

I go by a simple rule. After abstinence for a sustained period I ask myself if my life has improved and is significantly better than it was at the very end prior to choosing to quitting gambling. Sustained abstinence provides the evidence. Am I happier, calmer, worry less, a nicer person, more patient, better husband, better father, more honest, sleep better, fitter, healthier, better off financially. The answer is I am far better off not gambling in all the ways that I’ve listed.

Don’t return to gambling in any way shape or form. Your life will get worse.

RR

 

 

I would love anybody to elaborate on their story of dealing with relapses and also any other advice on dealing with controlling their gambling.

I was in a position for years where I was desperate to 'control' my own gambling. I would self exclude from individual sites, but normally for short periods (at most 6 months). Really I just wanted to get on a financial even keel so I could start gambling again. Did winning as much as my annual salary on one bet mean I was a successful gambler ? Not really - but it gave the illusion for a short time.

My personal view is people excluding for 6 months don't really want to stop.

I suspect you know that you personally can't 'control' your own gambling.

I can't control my gambling. Sadly it took roughly 30 years from first attending GA back in 1988 to properly understand this. There was no epic rock bottom in the end - although I've been to plenty of dark places, but just a real tiredness of it all.  Defeat if you like, a thorough understanding that I couldn't win and couldn't stop.

It's a fool errand trying to 'control' our gambling - it will always end up controlling you. 

Guys thank you so much for the responses and I’ll address each response individually.

Chris

I resonate with the ‘dreamworld’ feeling as I imagine most of us have had it after a big win or a period of winning. I guess from your last paragraph looking outside the box and bringing it to basics, after my peak and slight downturn, I didn’t have a break and didn’t want to have a break and almost daily continued to play.

RR

I have noticed traits that have come back that reflect exactly how I used to be
During my period where I completely stopped I noticed things outside of the financial aspect had improved remarkably. I realised win or lose how much negative energy, me gambling alone online instilled and how that transferred into real life situations.

KS2

You are right, I guess I don’t want to stop . So am I kidding myself that I believe I can control my gambling through limiting how much I deposit to an amount I am okay with losing each week?

I’ve had an awful lot of thoughts writing this and struggling to answer some of my own questions.

I love the game of poker as there is forms of strategy to it, but then I wonder is it the strategy part of it that I love or is it the gamble of getting it in a 60% favourite and expecting to be a winner in the long run I love?  

If I was to stop and restart my Gamstop my struggle is filling the void and my mental train of thought.

I'm currently furloughed (not for much longer) and on average have played ~30 hours a week for 6 weeks.

This time could obviously be used a lot more productively but how do I stop that little s**t in my head saying: ‘You could just deposit 25$ which you don’t mind losing, and easily spin it up to $100, that’s better and more fun than reading a book’. That’s exactly how it would go in my head.

Andy,

You ask "how do I stop the little s**t in my head saying...."? I have a little saying that might help sort the voices. Imagine you have your normal voice and you have your addict voice, both  saying different things. You know you can't control your gambling, your addict is telling you that you can. Okay, my saying is "don't make excuses for not doing something but find a reason to do something ".

Rather than find excuses, which is your addict speaking, find your own voice and find a reason to do something. So, in your example, your addict is making excuses not to use Gamstop and to carry on gambling because how could you possibly fill the void? Your own voice should be telling you that with the Gamstop in place, you can fill the time by living, by exercising, by talking to friends, by reading a book, by catching up with some sleep and given enough time and perhaps after working a recovery program through GA or Gamcare counselling, you can have peace of mind so that you can just enjoy life. Excuses or reasons? You decide.

Chris.

Hi Andy1503 and Welcome

Once hooked there is no control. How can I put this. Deep down you know the pain its causing you or you wouldn't be here.

Relapsing can be a delusional term because fighting this addiction takes much more than the willpower of the gambler. I went through a confused stage where we knew my actions were harming me but couldnt bring myself to abstain and enter a full recovery.

I just thought a bit of  casual willpower would do it....How wrong I was!

At one point I was congratulating myself for six days between sessions then only two. My mind was fighting itself and I was patting myself on the back for being a good boy for a few days.

The truth is I never really stopped and any small gaps were no sign of control. The truth is I had very little money on those days or a bill just had to be paid or else .

Many if not of the people I saw in the bookies were addicts and they were far from admitting it. The crazy thing about all addictions is how the addict twists the mind. I have sat in a room full of heroin addicts in a drug help day centre The addicts would actually talk like they were the normal ones and the staff were the nerds or squares.

This also happens in the bookies and I could write a book about the ridiculous addicted banter Ive heard. It seemed to be a badge of honour in there to have blown a fortune because they are in a land of delusion, tehy cant stop and they have to save face anyway that makes them sound anything other than sad addicts

If you talk things through with someone close and show them your bank statements you will get the answer to something you already know

Online Black Jack and poker are not soft options for it only takes one form of gambling to destroy people. People have lost millions playing Black jack because the addiction hooks people using every method of gambling and from all walks of life.

It took me 10 months after joining the forum to do anything properly to enter a recovery. I talked about relapses but the door was always wide open for me to gamble anywhere.  

When I finally told my parents and self excluded properly the real test began whether I would relapse. I found that Iwouldnt break the exclusions ot travel further to gamble...There was a plan B with parental monitoring if I did.

After crying for three days it just seemed right to exclude and phone my dad. A born again moment of serenity washed over me. Telling my dad was not easy believe me but the alternative was that I was killing myself 

You show all the signs of addiction. There is a bit of trying to talk yourself into a comfort zone that you can handle it. The addiction doesnt want to let you go easily.

Life is much better gamble free.

Best wishes from everyone on the forum 

Joydivider thank you for your words, I can see how much effort you put into this forum in my short time being here, it’s appreciated. 

I’ll explain a situation that arose yesterday which touches on Chris’ point.

After my post yesterday I cleared my head and agreed with points made in this thread and thought there is no way of me really controlling it, so let’s move forward and self exclude from the site I’ve been playing on.

I open up the client, open up live support - ‘hi I’d like to self exclude please’.

Before the representative had time to respond I closed the client. I didn’t want to go through with it.

That voice in my head was saying, ‘you’ve put a 50£ weekly deposit limit on, you’re fine losing that, and it’s not like you’ll lose it every week as you’ll win some weeks.’

Hang on, let’s rewind to last week to when I Had a £50 weekly deposit. I lost it and within 24 hours I’d upped my limit to £200. I lost that and 24 hours later I was at a £400 limit. Lost that obviously and preceded to have a breather from that site and put my weekly limit back to £50, thinking okay bit of a wild lapse but we’ll get back on track.

What stopped me yesterday was me feeling in a good state mentally thinking I can cope with losing the £50 and it’s okay but the reality of it is, if I lost a hand getting my money in a 70% favourite, I can guarantee I would be coming back to try get that money as if it’s owed to me, similar to what happened last week.

It took me reading the last 2 posts and reviewing my mentality over the last week to see I was just making an excuse because at that point in time I felt good mentally.

Whilst writing this I spoke to live support and put a self exclusion on and have also reinstated my gamstop. 

Good work on the reinstatement. 

Just remember which voice is yours and which is the addicts. You did a good step yesterday.

There are some banks which either ban use by betting or have a feature which you can switch on via the app which bans use by betting and takes 48 hours to cancel, normally enough time to get past the "urge". Monza is one and he lloyds group are another. Maybe another block to help take away some of the urge and urgency of placing a bet?

Chris.

Thats great Andy1503. Only you really know when its time and Im so glad you are here.

Its such a dangerous addiction because people do not know how addicted they have become. It most often takes a horrendous low to make them see a chink of light.

I rode the losses for decades thinking its just one of those things. I never really had £100 to chuck away in a pub machine and it turned into thousands a year. I look back now and I cant believe it was me that did that. It was and I have to take responsibility for it. The gambling dens are are not blame free but I have to face it and not let negative feelings eat me up.

I dont call it an industry and I see them as the drug pushers they are

I had no control over it...I was very ill with addiction. I didnt realise that it was more about the drug of risk, the drug of "playing" than the money.

Many dont...its not an intelligence or greed issue...its a hook that gets into our bones.

All the risk was really with you. Its not an income scheme or an investment and obvious facts like that need stating time and time again

You realise that its not for you...you wont be missing anything . If you think you will just focus on what its already done to you. Why would you want to give your money to them.

Its deep though Andy and you have to be strong in your thought processes.

I never really had any "spare" money to risk. I do without loads of things. 

We are so conditioned about money...keeping up with the joneses and all that. In a way its no wonder we go loopy with it

I promise you that your life will be better gamble free. There are plenty of better things to do and there is a pride in having control of your life back 

You have to use every thought process to realise how fortunate you are to be free from gambling. It does take a born again moment with spiritual thoughts.

Best wishes