Partner Mental Illness and Gambling - Please Help

Hello tk28,

You mentioned that you're feeling worried and can't sleep or eat, it sounds like you're feeling very stressed, so please remember to take good care of yourself in this challenging situation. You posted that your partner has been seeing his GP, please encourage him to continue using his local NHS as frequently and as regularly as he needs their support. You could also see your GP if you find that the stress is becoming overwhelming for you.

We can't speak on behalf of a gambling operator or predict their response to a particular case, but we can listen to you if you call us on our freephone 0808 8020 133, and we can give you information about local sources of support. You might also like to call the Samaritans on 116 123 or look at their website https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us Our website also has a links to other organisations and services, like the Gambling Commission, Citizens Advice, and various free debt advice services. http://www.gamcare.org.uk/about-us/links-other-support-agencies

Take care,

Forum admin.

Hi Tk28.

Have a read of my recovery diary if you get chance, as I managed to get some losses back from a bookie recently (not the same one as you). Not entirely sure why, as they clearly don't want to create any precedents by putting something in writing.

It will though be a long and time consuming process, but worth giving it a shot. Ultimately I got the Gambling Commission involved, but I think they will only take an interest once you have followed the bookies internal complaints procedure first.

You need to focus on asking questions around their responsible gambling and money laundering policies and procedures.

Give it a go, put everything in emails so you have a history of your correspondence, and be willing to be persistent.

Good luck

Richard

tk28 wrote:

Hi, my partner has run into a big problem, he is not mentally well and is severely depressed, he has been struggling with depression for quite a few years and this has caused him to gamble on and off but i have only just found out. Before christmas he got a lot worse, he is only 29 and has already lost both his mum from cancer and his dad from a heart attack and has no other family around. Since the start of this year he has been to his GP 3 times and is on prescription anti depressants from the doctor, with the dose recently being doubled and i did not realise how unwell he was as we live seperately. A few days ago not in sane mind he logged onto Betway roulette on his phone and managed to lose £40,000 in the space of 45 minutes. There were no safe guards put in place by them or his bank (Halifax) and he lost every penny he had as well as all the money he got from a loan of £18,00 that was for our deposit on a houseand is now suicidal, he is self employed but has not been to work for over a month due to his depression but does not claim any benefits of any kind. I was wondering how this has been allowed to happen and where I stand on even the slightest possibility of recovering the money as he is mentally sick and is in need of help, he does not even remember making the excess deposits and said he did not have any idea what he was doing until it was too late. Since i found out he has also been on suicide watch and has been contacted by the police as he went missing for around 10 hours and was found by a railway track. This is absolutely devestating for me to watch and i'm out of my mind desperate to help him, I called Betway a few days ago and they were not very helpful, after pleading and pleading with them to help me they agreed that it shouldn't have been allowed to happen and have said it has been escalated to the welfare department, do you think there is any chance of this getting resolved? Sorry to bother everyone but I am just out of my mind with worry and cannot sleep or eat! Thank you so much for taking the time to read this, any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

As has been said above, utilise the complaints procedure fully. If that doesn't work the get IBAS and GC involved. They have a duty of care and allowing £40k deposits and losses within 45 minutes is not great. However, be warned, the GC will initially say that this wouldn't have been enough time to do due diligence on an individual to take action on it. The GC can only advise and cant help you get your money back but a lot of the operators do not want to get embroidled in conversations with them which they need to make public. It will be a long road but you may need to go down a legal route to recover some of it, thats what I am doing at the moment. Get him to self exclude from everywhere in the meantime. I found that joining as many as possible and self excluding straight away works best.

Thank you all very much for your comments, I have been on the phone to them every day, they had escalated it to the welfare department who never called when they said they would. I called them again last night and they asked for him to write out a letter and sign and date it stating that I have full permission to act on his behalf and to discuss everything on his behalf which we had done, I also asked them to stop contacting him as it is making him worse, since sending the email they have sent him 3 emails with the last 1 stating that they are refusing and unwilling to speak to me now (even though they said they would once we had given total permission) and they will not speak to anyone other than him. This is impossible they know fully well his mental situation and that he is severely depressed and suffering from mental illness yet they will only talk to him knowing he is not in any state of mind to talk and is not of sane mind, I am at a standstill about what to do and I am completely shocked that they have absolutely no regard for his illness and mental condition, any advice as to what I can do about this? Thank you

Unfortunately I think the answer will ultimately be no, bookmakers are quick to cover themselves in situations like these and will say that if he was of able mind to login and access roulette tables he is of able mind to place & lose bets , if he won I very much doubt you would be asking them to void the bets

You may get slightly more sympathy from the banks although they are just a 3^rd party that facilitate the transaction and I suspect they’re first question will be “why weren’t we previously notified of his mental state”

Unfortunately this is the world we live in

In saying that £40,000 in an hour is a LOT of money and I agree there does need to be more safeguarding in place for people with gambling addictions I think there should be a reality check phonecall from the bookmaker or the bank once you hit £5,000 worth of deposits to gambling within say a 7 day rolling period ( in your husbands case he would of hit this trigger within 20 mins )

im aware People will regularly make 1,2,3 thousand’s worth of deposits in a “session” but definitely think there should be something done at 5K as anything after that starts getting ridiculous it doesn’t matter who you are or what you are earning

Hi,

Don't give up. I wouldn't major on the mental health issue (unless you have medical evidence from before he blew the money, that can just add some colour to your complaint). Ultimately all of us who have blown a lot of money on here haven't been thinking straight in some way, shape or form. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think it will get far saying "he wasn't thinking straight / he was depressed/ he was drunk / he didn't know what he was doing".

Where you might have a chance is just sticking to facts eg what are your policies on responsible gambling, what money laundering checks had you carried out on someone gambling so much, so quickly. If someone actually said it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, make a note of the time ... if you can't remember the exact details / person, ask for a transcript of their phone records as calls are recorded. Believe me, I tried the emotional approach myself ... it got me nowhere. If you are going to seriously try to get some money back, you need to approach it like a lawyer. In my experience, there's basically a bit of a phony war where you will ask for explanations and get stonewalled, but you need to do this before you can go to the Gambling Commission etc ... even then, they don't get you money back, but the bookie might decide they don't want to risk any file.

I agree it's a long shot. If you are going to do it, you need to make sure you don't get worked up every time you get nowhere with a call or email, otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. I just decided I would be as big a pain in the backside to them as possible, and I had the spare time and mental capacity to do it ... I always saw any money I got back as an upside. They won't just cave in ... they'll think it's a sob story they've heard loads before (which isn't what I think by the way, I have huge sympathy for you). In reality, all the emails they send that they shouldn't, all the times they fail to respond when they say they would ... keep a track, as it's only building up examples of their poor practice for when you do take it elsewhere ... I went from dozens of nothing responses over 3 months, to suddenly getting my money back ... there was no gradual negotiation or sense that I was getting anyway. My advice is keep trying, expect nothing so you can't be disappointed, but only if you feel you can cope with a few months of this without getting yourself really stressed. Richard

RSmith39 wrote:

Hi,

Don't give up. I wouldn't major on the mental health issue (unless you have medical evidence from before he blew the money, that can just add some colour to your complaint). Ultimately all of us who have blown a lot of money on here haven't been thinking straight in some way, shape or form. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think it will get far saying "he wasn't thinking straight / he was depressed/ he was drunk / he didn't know what he was doing".

Where you might have a chance is just sticking to facts eg what are your policies on responsible gambling, what money laundering checks had you carried out on someone gambling so much, so quickly. If someone actually said it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, make a note of the time ... if you can't remember the exact details / person, ask for a transcript of their phone records as calls are recorded. Believe me, I tried the emotional approach myself ... it got me nowhere. If you are going to seriously try to get some money back, you need to approach it like a lawyer. In my experience, there's basically a bit of a phony war where you will ask for explanations and get stonewalled, but you need to do this before you can go to the Gambling Commission etc ... even then, they don't get you money back, but the bookie might decide they don't want to risk any file.

I agree it's a long shot. If you are going to do it, you need to make sure you don't get worked up every time you get nowhere with a call or email, otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. I just decided I would be as big a pain in the backside to them as possible, and I had the spare time and mental capacity to do it ... I always saw any money I got back as an upside. They won't just cave in ... they'll think it's a sob story they've heard loads before (which isn't what I think by the way, I have huge sympathy for you). In reality, all the emails they send that they shouldn't, all the times they fail to respond when they say they would ... keep a track, as it's only building up examples of their poor practice for when you do take it elsewhere ... I went from dozens of nothing responses over 3 months, to suddenly getting my money back ... there was no gradual negotiation or sense that I was getting anyway. My advice is keep trying, expect nothing so you can't be disappointed, but only if you feel you can cope with a few months of this without getting yourself really stressed. Richard

Hi Richard, that is some great advice, are there any specific laws or policies that you quoted? Is there any way I can contact you in private to discuss with you? And also if you don't mind me asking, how much were you able to recover (Completely understand if you do not want to say)

Many Thanks

tk28 wrote:

[quote=RSmith39]

Hi,

Don't give up. I wouldn't major on the mental health issue (unless you have medical evidence from before he blew the money, that can just add some colour to your complaint). Ultimately all of us who have blown a lot of money on here haven't been thinking straight in some way, shape or form. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think it will get far saying "he wasn't thinking straight / he was depressed/ he was drunk / he didn't know what he was doing".

Where you might have a chance is just sticking to facts eg what are your policies on responsible gambling, what money laundering checks had you carried out on someone gambling so much, so quickly. If someone actually said it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, make a note of the time ... if you can't remember the exact details / person, ask for a transcript of their phone records as calls are recorded. Believe me, I tried the emotional approach myself ... it got me nowhere. If you are going to seriously try to get some money back, you need to approach it like a lawyer. In my experience, there's basically a bit of a phony war where you will ask for explanations and get stonewalled, but you need to do this before you can go to the Gambling Commission etc ... even then, they don't get you money back, but the bookie might decide they don't want to risk any file.

I agree it's a long shot. If you are going to do it, you need to make sure you don't get worked up every time you get nowhere with a call or email, otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. I just decided I would be as big a pain in the backside to them as possible, and I had the spare time and mental capacity to do it ... I always saw any money I got back as an upside. They won't just cave in ... they'll think it's a sob story they've heard loads before (which isn't what I think by the way, I have huge sympathy for you). In reality, all the emails they send that they shouldn't, all the times they fail to respond when they say they would ... keep a track, as it's only building up examples of their poor practice for when you do take it elsewhere ... I went from dozens of nothing responses over 3 months, to suddenly getting my money back ... there was no gradual negotiation or sense that I was getting anyway. My advice is keep trying, expect nothing so you can't be disappointed, but only if you feel you can cope with a few months of this without getting yourself really stressed. Richard

Hi Richard, that is some great advice, are there any specific laws or policies that you quoted? Is there any way I can contact you in private to discuss with you? And also if you don't mind me asking, how much were you able to recover (Completely understand if you do not want to say)

Many Thanks

Casinos have a duty of care when you gamble on their sites. It’s your job to prove that they failed in that duty of care. It’s a bit of a grey area but if your case is strong enough then they won’t want to have to explain things to the GC or have it in the public eye.

I have recently got deposits back from two operators who both failed to do appropriate background checks and incentivised high stakes gambling.

Be clear and concise, not confrontational.

EKJR wrote:

[quote=tk28]

[quote=RSmith39]

Hi,

Don't give up. I wouldn't major on the mental health issue (unless you have medical evidence from before he blew the money, that can just add some colour to your complaint). Ultimately all of us who have blown a lot of money on here haven't been thinking straight in some way, shape or form. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think it will get far saying "he wasn't thinking straight / he was depressed/ he was drunk / he didn't know what he was doing".

Where you might have a chance is just sticking to facts eg what are your policies on responsible gambling, what money laundering checks had you carried out on someone gambling so much, so quickly. If someone actually said it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, make a note of the time ... if you can't remember the exact details / person, ask for a transcript of their phone records as calls are recorded. Believe me, I tried the emotional approach myself ... it got me nowhere. If you are going to seriously try to get some money back, you need to approach it like a lawyer. In my experience, there's basically a bit of a phony war where you will ask for explanations and get stonewalled, but you need to do this before you can go to the Gambling Commission etc ... even then, they don't get you money back, but the bookie might decide they don't want to risk any file.

I agree it's a long shot. If you are going to do it, you need to make sure you don't get worked up every time you get nowhere with a call or email, otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. I just decided I would be as big a pain in the backside to them as possible, and I had the spare time and mental capacity to do it ... I always saw any money I got back as an upside. They won't just cave in ... they'll think it's a sob story they've heard loads before (which isn't what I think by the way, I have huge sympathy for you). In reality, all the emails they send that they shouldn't, all the times they fail to respond when they say they would ... keep a track, as it's only building up examples of their poor practice for when you do take it elsewhere ... I went from dozens of nothing responses over 3 months, to suddenly getting my money back ... there was no gradual negotiation or sense that I was getting anyway. My advice is keep trying, expect nothing so you can't be disappointed, but only if you feel you can cope with a few months of this without getting yourself really stressed. Richard

Hi Richard, that is some great advice, are there any specific laws or policies that you quoted? Is there any way I can contact you in private to discuss with you? And also if you don't mind me asking, how much were you able to recover (Completely understand if you do not want to say)

Many Thanks

Casinos have a duty of care when you gamble on their sites. It’s your job to prove that they failed in that duty of care. It’s a bit of a grey area but if your case is strong enough then they won’t want to have to explain things to the GC or have it in the public eye.

I have recently got deposits back from two operators who both failed to do appropriate background checks and incentivised high stakes gambling.

Be clear and concise, not confrontational.

Hi EKJR, thank you for your response and advice, are there any particular laws you quoted or things that you may have said that made your case strong?

RSmith39 wrote:

Hi,

Don't give up. I wouldn't major on the mental health issue (unless you have medical evidence from before he blew the money, that can just add some colour to your complaint). Ultimately all of us who have blown a lot of money on here haven't been thinking straight in some way, shape or form. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't think it will get far saying "he wasn't thinking straight / he was depressed/ he was drunk / he didn't know what he was doing".

Where you might have a chance is just sticking to facts eg what are your policies on responsible gambling, what money laundering checks had you carried out on someone gambling so much, so quickly. If someone actually said it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, make a note of the time ... if you can't remember the exact details / person, ask for a transcript of their phone records as calls are recorded. Believe me, I tried the emotional approach myself ... it got me nowhere. If you are going to seriously try to get some money back, you need to approach it like a lawyer. In my experience, there's basically a bit of a phony war where you will ask for explanations and get stonewalled, but you need to do this before you can go to the Gambling Commission etc ... even then, they don't get you money back, but the bookie might decide they don't want to risk any file.

I agree it's a long shot. If you are going to do it, you need to make sure you don't get worked up every time you get nowhere with a call or email, otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. I just decided I would be as big a pain in the backside to them as possible, and I had the spare time and mental capacity to do it ... I always saw any money I got back as an upside. They won't just cave in ... they'll think it's a sob story they've heard loads before (which isn't what I think by the way, I have huge sympathy for you). In reality, all the emails they send that they shouldn't, all the times they fail to respond when they say they would ... keep a track, as it's only building up examples of their poor practice for when you do take it elsewhere ... I went from dozens of nothing responses over 3 months, to suddenly getting my money back ... there was no gradual negotiation or sense that I was getting anyway. My advice is keep trying, expect nothing so you can't be disappointed, but only if you feel you can cope with a few months of this without getting yourself really stressed. Richard

Very helpful advice. I have had a terrible relaspe over two weeks. Had my self-exclusion removed with a £100 monthly limit; lost over £5000 in total. I'm going to try this approach too. As you say, not expecting anything, but worth a shout.

That is tragic to read Tk28 and its another example of the abject misery that gambling causes. This is a classic case that should be under full investigation. What is most depressing is by who though becasue the mps have a vested interest in obeying the government whip for tax revenue. The fact that gambling remains legal and limits are not regulated will lead to tragic circumstances like this

I dont know of a refund defence based on mental illness but I would argue that many gamblers including me had some form of mental illness that the gambling was feeding from in a vicious circle. Ive seen people in the bookies that were clearly mentally ill and I was experiencing deep depression myself. Compulsive gambling is and addiction based on mental illness and feeding from other mental illnessess

My view is that you have to focus that your mental health and the mental health of your partner is the most important thing here. The medical issues are the most important and some sort of financial control will need to be established like a power over the accounts.

Why the banks allow these transactions is an absolute disgrace to me. Any large gambling transaction should flag up preventative warnings. Gambling and sensible banking are polar opposites.

There should be a case to answer here but I feel that you cant take too much on at once. Part of any recovery process is realising that your partner is still here and life is worth living. For your partner its getting better and accepting he has a future.

I have to tell you that you can not both stress yourself over the money. I know its hard to think about but life goes on after bankruptcy. There has to be some focus here on what is most important...there simply has to be! or the depression gets worse

I feel for you I really do. Please reach out for all the support around you. see if your partner can get better with medical help and then take it from there.

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Low as the industry is, compulsive gambling is an emotional problem with financial symptoms. Focusing on the money is just a distraction from the real issue of addiction.

CW

Hi tk28,

I sympathise greatly with your unfortunate situation. Similar to your partner, I, too, suffer from — among other things — very severe depression. I lost a fair amount of money spread betting and I was considering the compensation route on the grounds of "diminished responsibility". I know in reality, however, that such a claim would prove to be futile.

I am in no way trying to minimise the horrendous financial loss that you have suffered; however, I honestly feel that you would be wasting your time trying to recoup your losses via legal means. Although I disagree completely, in the eyes of a large gambling company like Betway, £40,000 is not really a large figure in the grand scheme of things. For instance, take a look at the following Daily Mail article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-532012/Gambler-loses-high-court-judge-rules-2m-loss-NOT-bookmakers-fault.html ; this individual placed £347,000 on a single bet. He ultimately failed in his mission to recover the money; as is generally always the case, "the bookmaker won". Furthermore, from a legal perspective I do not believe that your partner's poor mental health will be viewed as a good reason to excuse the subsequent compulsive gambling behaviour. I contend that, like the bookmaker in the aforementioned case, Betway would simply employ the services of high-end, ruthless lawyers in order to destroy any chance of you recovering the funds. It's a harsh reality, but I think that is what would happen.

Instead of pursuing legal action, perhaps consider focusing extensively on your partner's severe mental health problems (and, indeed, any psychological trauma that you have experienced) because this is undoubtedly vastly more important. I believe that the gambling actions constitute a core symptom of the larger issue at play here (i.e., severe major depressive disorder). Moreover, in my opinion it would be more realistic to focus on repaying the £18,000 debt via a debt management plan such as an IVA or a DRO.

I wish you and your partner all the best in this horrific situation.

Best wishes.

Hi Tk28,

Apologies for delay in getting back to you. In answer to your question, I got back a similar amount to what your partner lost - ultimately it was the net losses I had incurred on that particular site. I think it was because I had excluded from a sister site, although it may have been the amount they allowed me to bet in a few days (I deposited c.£100k), without any questions. I haven't had a specific rationale as clearly they wouldn't want something in writing that I could send on to everyone else, sites such as this, the press etc. I also suspect the amount was in the "swet spot" ie something they were willing to write off, which I'm sure it wouldn't have been with a six figure sum. I also think the timing was important in my situation (and seems to be the same in your partners) eg opened an account and deposited a lot quickly ... again, would have been different if I'd had the acount for months or years and betting had gradually increased over time.

One relevant point from the Gambling Commission was:

"All operators have a responsibility to identify certain behaviour or patterns in their customers’ betting. Operators should have triggers in place that when met by an individual, prompts a ‘customer interaction’. This means that they should make contact with the individual to check that they are comfortable with their spending and that they are in control of their gambling. It is a requirement of the Licence Conditions and Codes of Practice (LCCP) that they have a policy in place relating to customer interaction for problem gambling. The code states:

‘Licensees must put into effect policies and procedures for customer interaction where they have concerns that a customer’s behaviour may indicate problem gambling’

We would consider any failure to adhere to the above code as a breach of the LCCP."

I would focus on that, along with money laundering procedures.

I agree with the above comments that sorting out your partner's mental and gambling issues is absolutely the priority. However, I also think that you should continue to pursue the bookie, as long as you aren't going to get stressed about it yourself, as it will be a lengthy process (the Gambling Commission will only intervene once you have explored all avenues with the bookies own complaints procedure).

I don't know the procedure for allowing private contact ... not sure if the forum administrators can swap details somehow, but happy to have a private chat if it helps in anyway and they can facilitate it.

Sorry to find you in this situation ... it's bad for us gamblers, but I really feel for you given you haven't created this situation.

Richard