Just don't know what to do.

Hi Loner 4736.

Welcome to the forum and I can really relate to what you are saying. Many of us have done exactly the same thing so you are not alone there.

The addiction works in various ways and one of them is the trigger that you are a clever gambler just wanting a smaller win to cover a fee or small item. I fully understand how benefit living used to stress me about buying a pair of socks or trying to replace a chip meal. It made me so worried about money that I flipped and my addiction became even worse

Unfortunately when addicted you are ignoring the odds and can not stop anyway. There is no system on roulette and any form of gambling is not there to guarantee an amount as and when we need it.

I understand the isolation and I understand living on benefits. Gambling is not the answer to this though no matter how much stress you feel from financial pressures and the dwp. I understand how the dislike for people builds up but retreating into your own world is simply no good for you.

It is about soul searching and finding the simpler pleasures in life as you plan the future

The answer comes from within. Its a born again moment when you realise you have to abstain from gambling and look for some inner contentment. Gambling will only make your situation worse. I know it seems easy to say but you need some social interaction and new interests fast

We recommend that you do talk to people close if you can and start putting some real self exclusions in place. If online is your problem its so serious that you need to be without a computer for a long while or make sure its properly blocked by someone and monitored in necessary.

There is no shame in reaching for help. With full financial advice and a benefits review you need to talk to people about how you feel you can afford to live.

I dont know your relationship with family but secrets are no good for you. Perhaps they could help you live on an allowance. My parents monitor my credit card with a low balance and they make sure Im paying my way.

There is help for you and you dont have to suffer this alone. Please ring gamcare and you should try a GA meeting which would give you a purpose and focus on those evenings.

Keep using the forum...read the stories and please get involved with the chats and forum replies

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Thanks for your reply. I wanted to take a few days to digest it before replying.

I think part of my problem is that i've been living this life of just surviving from one fortnight to the next for so long that it's all i really know. Because i'm not working due to various long term medical conditions, in a weird sort of way, it's like it gives me a purpose or a focus - it's bad focus, that I fully understand, but this constant daily grind of working out what i've got to spend and what i can or can't eat is almost "work".

Contrast to about two years ago when I actually did manage to get a fairly good win on roulette which enabled me to completely 'reset' my financial situation. Paid off all my debts and bought a number of things i'd needed to buy for a long time as well.

For about a month, I was comfortable. I had no debt and I had excess cash left over each fortnight. There literally was no need to gamble.

And I couldn't cope with it. It wasn't because i was having withdrawal from gambling or an overwhelming urge to get back to it, but it was because, in my mind, I had nothing else.

Which, in itself, is also completely incorrect because I do have a number of things that could be considered hobbies that i would get a lot of pleasure out of and that i would also find quite rewarding as well.

But i suppose since the only person i've got in my life to encourage me and push me forward is me, and I don't like me all that much, I think it became somewhat of a self sabotage situation so that i could get back to the grind that i've always known and that i hate.

And over the following months, that's exactly what happened and that has remained until this day.

I'm constantly chasing this situation that i keep telling myself that i want - zero debt and minimal outgoings - but I almost know in the back of my mind that I'm not going to be able to cope with anyway.

I've visited a number of counsellors and psychiatrists over the years to try and get to the bottom of things without any luck and i'm currently on a waiting list to go back for more counselling so i suppose i'm hoping that eventually it'll work and i'll be able to move forward.

I have a good relationship with my family and, as i said, I'm sure my father would want to do his best to help but with his health being as it is, i can't bring myself to say anything to him for fear of the stress and worry exacerbating the problems he already has.

GA really isn't something I can consider at the moment because I know in myself that my deep-rooted dislike of human beings will make it impossible for me to approach it in the right way.

So I don't know. I've been forced to take out another short term 'bad credit' loan just to get through the next fortnight - my third such loan this year - but it's put me in a situation where any losses incurred through gambling over the next three months will pretty much bring the whole house of cards down because i'll have no means of recovering and i'll have to tell my family whether i want to or not. I don't have anything of value left that i can sell to pawn shops and i'll have no means of repaying this loan as well as other essential outgoings.

as absurd as it sounds, that kind of 'gun to my head' situation tends to work with me more than most things so if i can start my counselling in the next few weeks as well then the combination of the two might actually achieve something because i could have someone else there convincing me to re-focus on better things.

sorry again for the long post but thanks for reading.

Hi Loner 4736

Sorry to hear about your situation. It reminded me of my first reasons to getting into gambling - it was all about making sure I had enough money to pay the bills for the future.

I think Joydivider's advice is spot on - somehow finding the simpler pleasures in life and being able to discover the anwser in yourself somehow. Although it's much easier to say than do. But I'm finding that since I've stopped gambling (all of 8 days!) - I'm beginning to find there's a truth in it. Gambling just gave me a single minded outlook on life, somehow overriding all the good stuff in my life.

I'm glad that you're scheduled for counselling and I hope that it begins to work. And I do hope you stick around the forums - because from my own personal experience, in the very short time I've been here, I've found it to be a great support and it's really helped me to begin to tackle my gambling problem.

If you're not keen on meeting other people at GA, maybe this forum can provide a sense of community and support for you. You are very open and articulate about your life and feelings and I'm sure there are many people here who can provide much support.

I honestly think that if I'd not joined this site, I'd still be losing money each day on a roulette table, and at the same time gradually losing interest in life. But knowing that there are many people in similar situation here, it stops me from feeling that I'm tackling it alone and gives me a 'go to' place whenever the destructive urges return.

Best wishes

Equinox

Thanks for your reply loner4736.

Its difficult to get everything over about the addiction in my first reply and hope that you will keep talking about it on the forum.

The addiction is complex and is linked to self sabotage and a need to punish ourselves for low feelings and low self esteem. Its linked to stress depression, neuron paths which are reinforced, escape and just trying to feel beyond numb with some dopamine in the pleasure centre of the brain. Studies have shown that compulsive gamblers dont even feel the highs any more and are more excited by the near miss and the lows. The lows become a stronger hit and even part of the craving to play

I gambled mainly for escape as the addiction developed. What I really wanted to do was shout in the street, I hate my life, I hate my past jobs, Ive had no ambition, no real loving relationships and Im going nowhere...I hate myself. My gambling was in many ways a cry for attention and help.

With some therapy I realised it had become a devil may care outlet for my frustrations coupled with the need to experience the highs and the lows of playing.

All I can really say is that a gambling addiction is an illness. There is so much to say. Einstein said there is no system or income scheme on roulette. A ball rolling round a wheel is not a debt repayment scheme...its a game of chance where you can more easily lose your money

many people working or not,struggle to get by and have to make choices. I know its not easy but you are not alone and its not a glib statement to say your money will go further if you dont gamble. What are you looking for because gambling ruins people and has new lows in store for the addict. You mention a month of being comfortable but your overall story is about the misery of gambling which brings you to the forum

Is it not a very sad thing to say that gambling gives you a purpose? Has the win reinforced some feeling that you will do it again on a regular basis?

I am actually struggling to know what to say to you at the moment. Thats because you know it runs deep and you seem to have accepted fate or some self fulfilling prophecy.

I hope you do start to focus that a born again moment is needed where you act on the tried and tested advice. we often state in discussions that a certain low is needed before seeing the light and I hope you are not pushing yourself to that low before being ready to stop.

Abstention allows the mind the time to heal but there is never room for half measures or complacency.. My belief is that counselling must be done alongside other things. I do not believe that counselling works on its own if you are not ready to take other measures

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I certainly know that I don't need to gamble. Even with my financial situation being as it is, i have enough left over each fortnight to be able to afford to live relatively normally. not quite "comfortable" as i've said in the past, but certainly enough not to have to grind each day out over and over again. I say that gambling gives me a purpose, but i suppose it would be slightly more accurate to say that it gives me something. It makes me feel something. I know the primary emotion is one of negativity due to the constant losses but then there's the opposite emotion when i win here and there. It's not the stereotypical "buzz" or the thrill of winning, but it's a positive emotion nonetheless. At the risk of sounding, I suppose, "strange", I suppose i do live a fairly emotionless life overall, in part due to the world i've retreated in to and also due to the long term depression I know i've been suffering from so I think gambling stimulates my brain to feel something rather than nothing.

The win i spoke of gave me what i'd always sought - the platform from which i could stop gambling. As i said, i was comfortable. I had excess money over and above what i had coming in so there was nothing i couldn't buy if i wanted to buy it. Obviously being on benefits for over ten years, my lifestyle choices and aspirations are quite low in that sense so it's not like i had enough to go out and buy an iPhone outright I suppose.

I think self fulfilling prophecy is probably quite accurate unfortunately. I seem to want to keep myself in this situation, even though i don't want to be in this situation because the daily grind of living on a few pounds per day - sometimes one pound per day - is, to my mind at least, preferable to sitting at home staring at the wall with "nothing" to do.

And, of course, I say "nothing" even though i've actually got plenty to do. In my past life working in I.T., I used to get genuine pleasure out of doing what i did. In my years in the industry, i always got the impression that i was one of the few people who genuinely did enjoy what they did.

I know i need to break the cycle and i think the idea of finding that lightbulb moment is a good one but i think it's just getting there is the hard part.

Yes I understand what you are saying but what is it giving you apart from emergency loans and a maxed out credit card? Just the fact that you cant wait and set the alarm says it all really

Only you know when you are ready to stop. When gambling becomes a problem it gets dangerous fast. The money is relative to your income and a few hundred on benefits is a large and crucial amount of money.

Ive had the electicity off for days and been spooning cold beans out of a can but I still returned to gamble the next time I felt "flush" Ive thought of begging on the streets and have sold things for a fraction of their value yet I still returned to gambling. Its a crazy addiction which creates a zone that we ride out. Some call it creating its own comfort zone and until you go beyond that you may not be ready to stop.

I think we are sort of ignoring what you are losing here. Are you tending to brush that off or is it the way Im reading this? You see if you didnt have a problem and you were just losing a few pounds here and there nobody could say you had a problem trying to entertain yourself.

However I dont agree with gambling and think it creates addicts fast. Its not the answer whether you are living on £1, £10 or £100 per day. I know the odds and you will be losing more often than you are winning.

You seem in an early confused state of denial. You know you need to stop but you have every excuse ready to leave the gambling door open. I know all about that as I did it for 10 long months after joining the forum. Nodded at the advice and did nothing about it as I relapsed again and again. I realise now that I didnt want to stop.

How do I know that ...simple....I didnt treat the addiction with the seriousness it deserved and I did nothing people advised me to do...told nobody away from the forum and thought I will handle this at my own pace.

It seems you can take the ups and downs and you are resigned to your fate. Ive seen this with people Ive warned to stop locally. They wont and I mention it once because I cant make them stop.

Do you think counselling will work if you are not ready in other ways? The light bulb or born again moment usually comes when an addict can take no more.

You are still talking really about being able to deal with it and that it gives you something. That is the slant you or your addiction is putting on it.

Gambling will just continue with maxed out credit cards, more loans and less possessions...it spirals you down and down until more bills and more debts make it impossible to recover. If it was an income scheme I wouldnt be here and you wouldnt be here.

Being gamble free is a wonderful feeling. I do hope that you will take all the steps needed to join us in a full recovery.

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

I'm certainly under no illusions that I am a gambling addict and I know that it doesn't give me anything other than negative feelings and emotions. I'm certainly not in denial at all - i know what I am and I know I want to stop.

I do also have somewhat of a 'coping strategy' that i've developed over the years as well. It's never been to justify what I do or why i do it, but it's been more to deal with the anger and the upset that i feel each time i lose.

After the inevitable loss, i'll start to do all sorts of mental arithmetic to calculate that i "only started with A" and "because I only lost B which is C profit then really i'm only really down by D".

It's kind of a way of de-fusing my brain and calming me down by, I suppose, convincing me that because i'm only really down by a small amount, things aren't that bad. It doesn't always work to be fair. There have been a few occasions over the past year where i've tried to punch my way through concrete or a solid wall because i've been so angry and frustrated.

As far as what i'm losing goes, it ranges from anywhere between £50 to £200 pounds a time. And considering I only get £200 per fortnight in benefits, it can often be absolutely everything.

I do think i am somewhat resigned to it at the moment, as I said originally, i don't want to say it controls me but i think in the cold light of day it clearly does.

I do want to stop but changing my mindset to break out of this cycle just seems beyond me at the moment. I suppose you could argue, in part, it's down to almost being 'scared', for want of a better word, to be back in that situation i was last year after that big win, which was £2k, for the record. I keep thinking as much as i liked being in that situation and remembering how good it felt and how less stressed i felt, i still couldn't cope with it because, as far as i was concerned, I had nothing else.

Hi loner I've been reading through your posts and sorry to hear your struggle, I deffinatly know how your feeling, so many times in the past I've wanted to stop but didn't want to stop it COMPLETELY as i thought of never having another win again instead of thinking of never losing again (which I actually did more often) instead I kept coming up with ways of limiting myself instead, they never worked, I either found new sites, or went to slots in town, then I tried things like not taking my debit card and only a small amount of cash, I just ended up going into the bank to withdraw more. It took months of wasting most of my wages and totally wiping out my savings account before I realised the only way to be in control is to totally stop. I am finding it hard but keep reminding myself of how bad it feels to lose everything and knowing by doing this I will save more than I could ever win. I hope coming on the forum helps you as much as it has helped me. Gambling takes more than just your money it can ruin your whole life if you let it go on long enough.

Thanks for the reply.

It's funny, I was getting ready to go out yesterday and ticking over in my head how efficiently I can spread the £2 i had to spend that day and what i could buy food-wise. I think i've almost lived on biscuits for so many months now it's ridiculous.

Anyway, I clearly remember stopping for a moment, with a heavy sigh, and thinking "I'm really sick of this". I hate this daily grind to stretch nothing into something.

The thing is with me at the moment, I've already worked out my next lot of income and outgoings when i get paid again in 9 days time. Each fortnight I allocate money for bills, a daily budget, utilities e.t.c.. and i'll always often have £40 pounds left over that i sometimes refer to as my "walking around money" - spending money in other words.

Now with what's gone on previously, this next payment will mean i can only have £30 pounds of "walking around money" so my brain is already ticking over the possibility of "can i win that extra £10 pounds to get it to £40 pounds as it should be ?".

Instead of thinking "well £30 is plenty, I'll make it work" i'm thinking the opposite. again.

This is why it's so frustrating because of how i felt yesterday. I really am sick of this daily grind so obviously the obvious answer is .. well obvious !. I know logic doesn't exactly work when you're trying to overcome something that controls you, but there are times like yesterday when I really wish it would.

To expand on that thought process a little as well, I'll basically see that £30 as "expendable". To me, it's "only" spending money and can be sacrificed for the chance of winning that extra £10 pounds to bring it up to the "correct" level.

I'll be thinking that as long as i've got my daily food allowance, i can sacrifice this money.

What I don't think, or remember, is that that spending money often allows me to do things I actually enjoy - go to the cinema, for example.

So again, logic would dictate that if i didn't sacrifice that money to try and win that extra tenner, i'd have money to do things i enjoy. And, on the fortnights when I do have the "correct" amount of £40 pounds, if i didn't sacrifice that on the chance of winning some more to pay for this and/or that, i'd still have money left to do things i enjoy.

Hi

I understand the benefits situation I really do. I understand that a mind process develops where I thought it was rational to be trying to win back the cost of a bag of chips or bus ticket. Thoughts of being a clever gambler and just turning this forty into say fifty are actually irrational and addicted thoughts

Its not logical thinking because part of the gambling process is losing the money you do have in your pocket. The machines didnt go easy on Joydivider because it was my last fifty quid that I needed to increase. The computer chip or spinning wheel doesnt go easy on me because Im poor....all the risks are magnified because Im poor but its also and addiction that cleans footballers out and people from all walks of life

With the addiction nothing else started giving me any feeling above numb...not shopping, sitting in the pub (unless there was a machine) human relationships I was jaded with and everything seemed to be boring me

I know its hard but my feeling is that you are tending to micromanage your money and thought process to the point where it will drive you insane. There has to be some leeway where you start to appreciate some time you have and can go to the cinema for a treat.

I havent seen your finances and believe me I know its not easy. At some point I realised that I was getting benefit to a level that was almost as much as a previous factory job so I got on with managing it as best I could.

Yes the daily grind is tough and it can be tough on those who are working. The daily grind has always caused me some depression even in my first job after a few years I quit with nothing to go to because I was deeply depressed. I think I had always wished that gambling would give me a freedom but it doesnt as its not set up as a free money when Joydivider needs it scheme

you do need some financial advice. I built in some leeway process with my housing benefit and running a very low value credit card I couldnt sit and put bill money in jars because it would have driven me totally round the bend stictly knowing that it was £2 today and £2 tomorrow that was left. I could afford a cd or regularly buying something online. To some extent I had to rely on the next benefit payment arriving on time but what was I going to do in the short term. Nobody was employing me in any role and training was quoted at thousands

I cant stress enough that gambling is not the answer and its not a logical thought process. There are all sorts of things happening in your mind. There is a quote that inside every gambler is a miser and sadly living on benefits helped develop a depression a fear of money and a fear about my future that was destroying me. Gambling is a tax on the fears and hopes of the poor.

When I stopped gambling things started falling into place. Again its not glib to say that some of the simpler pleasures in life like feeding the ducks just helped ease my mind.

Its a difficult one because obviously £50 or £100 isnt plenty of money but gambling will take that from you in a click of the fingers. £30 is better in your pocket than being part of the bookies yacht insurance

You do need a financial checkup and even a quick chat with the doctor. There is no shame in any of this. You need to fully separate this mind process that gambling is part of your life because of your financial situation.

Best wishes

Hi

I am new here myself and have to say I completely understand your sense of isolation.

I have not told anyone about my gambling problems. I have a small close family however I would feel like a burden if I told them. I also do not have many friends and prefer my own company so I find it difficult to talk about my feelings and often revert to my own little world as well.

However I will say that there is a lot of strength in reading what others say here and it really can help break down the feeling of isolation.

You are not going through this alone.

I really hope your one day at a time turns into a life time of being free from this nasty addiction.

Much love,

Kat.

This is bad bad bad bad. very very very bad.

My financial situation has been hanging by a thread for a while now because of my apparent inability to give up gambling even though since i last posted it's just been getting exponentially worse. tuesday this week, i had 6 biscuits at about 8am for breakfast because that was all that was left in the cupboard and about 8pm i had half a bowl of rice with various condiments squirted in it to give it a bit of flavour.

Wednesday i had the other half of the bowl of rice at 8pm - that's it. nothing else for the whole day, just that one bowl of rice

There's a whole issue with a mobile phone i sold on ebay which i managed to fix and i borrowed £11 quid against that at cash converters yesterday just to buy food, but about an hour ago (1am) i got my benefits in my account and went straight online to "try and win £15" because my finances are so screwed that even if i hadn't touched this benefit payment, i was starting off £15 down already so i'm left hoping i get *some* money for christmas just so, once again, i can eat

So £32 goes in, because I can "sacrifice" the two things i've got in cash converters and, as usual, i have a "worst case scenario" in my head how i can "save" the stuff if i lose.

Within 15 minutes of playing, i'd achieved exactly what i wanted to achieve. £32 became £50. i could at least start the day on an even keel and if i DID get any money for christmas, at least it would be spare cash.

And i kept playing. and i lost it all.

So i did what i'm sure so many people have done and i chased it. and i chased it again. and before i knew it, out of the £204 i got, i was already £123 down. the one thing that's probably stopped me from just throwing it all in to chase it all the way is christmas and the fact i've got TWO provident loans i need to keep up the repayments on, and there are two other things i need to buy as well because if i buy those things you see, i can still keep up the pretence and pretend to the outside world that nothing is wrong and that i'm not a gambling addict. if i don't, questions start to get asked about where the money has gone ..

Anyway, here's the big kicker ..

I hit two big numbers in a row, and within an instant my balance hits £200 pounds, so i've recovered my losses with a significant profit.

So i sign out of the site, i go off and re-calculate all of my income and outgoings with this extra money. i can cover everything quite handily, i've got money spare and everything is rosy.

So i take a moment to calm down .. and i go back to playing. and i'm sitting there thinking "what are you doing?"

Because i wanted to win "only a fiver" so i could put it on a football accumulator later today to see if i comes in and lets me fix my finances. Only a fiver.

Less than an hour later and i'm quite literally curled up in a ball on the floor, feeling sick to the pit of my stomach, wanting to rage out, scream, punch something or do something because it's all gone. i had it. i had "saved" myself. it was sorted.

And now it's gone.

And now things are bad. very very bad.

I need £90 just to pay some due bills, two of which are overdue. i need £33 pounds just to buy food after christmas until my next payday on the 8th. And i've got no way of getting that now. none. this is without the £90 timebomb i've got hanging over my head from eBay after the above-mentioned mobile phone i sold was returned - after i'd spent half the money on overdue bills (again) and gambled the rest. the buyer initiated a return and ebay have set aside the money in paypal which, when i clearly can't refund the buyer, will be then subsequently removed from my account.

I have nothing left of value apart from my TV and my computer. and i'm putting so much stuff in cash converters and falling so far behind on bills that sooner or later, the stuff in cash converters will have to be sacrificed because i just won't be able to afford to get it back.

Sorry for such a long post but this is all still very raw and i'm still in bits about it really.

I can't tell my family though. i just can't. my mum is in her eighties and this kind of revelation would very well have an adverse affect on her health because it'll be happening all over again - she managed to batter out of me a confession about a fruit machine addiction over 15 years ago, as i might have said above, but to find out that i'm addicted all over again would very likely make her ill and i just can't live with that on my conscience.

I'm having counselling at the moment and we're talking a lot about gambling but it's clearly not working so i just don't know.

Typing this has certainly helped me calm down a lot so i might actually be able to get to sleep, but later today i have to put up the walls again and pretend nothing is wrong .. again .. so the cycle begins again and i'm sick of it.

Hi

You need some more tough talking becuase you are still trying to justify gambling in your mind. You are going into the small detail and qualifying it by "achieved exactly what I wanted to achieve" and "only a fiver".

You are trying to suggest that you are a careful and clever gambler but you are not and you see the results. You are also trying to suggest that you must gamble because you are poor and have all these bills to pay. You are playing on the sympathy vote but thats the addiction talking. You are not the only one who cant afford much. You are not so much poor as heavily addicted to gambling.

You also mention money that comes out ...we know that.... but we know it never really comes out when needed. if at all....we know its a mugs game especially for the compulsive gambler. You know the truth that it doesnt cover what you have lost and its on on borrowed time before you put it all back in again and more

Gambling in NOT the answer to you day to day finances. Many people struggle but gambling is not the answer. Which part of you may lose it all dont you understand? Do you understand the odds as most gamblers ignore them?

If it was an income scheme when the bills were due there would be a queue down the street to get in. Work would cease because everybody would be online gambling. Which part of that dont you understand? Im sorry to be blunt but you need to enter a full recovery now.

When was it ever a regular income scheme? Perhaps you can explain because you are clearly very addicted to the feeling of playing.

You are confused because you are addicted. You dont want to give up gambling! Is that hard to hear because Ive been there and its the truth.

Have you told your counsellor that they are seeing an active gambler? You need to tell someone and start living on an allowance. You need proper blocks or you will be gambling for the rest of your life

Please take this on or you will be back the next time you need to vent about losing. I knew early on that you really just want to stop losing. If you want to get mildly annoyed about this bring it on and we will talk . Im talking tough because I care about you

Nothing changes if nothing changes. Either you are after platitudes or real advice and help. We can all say there there and take care...what do you really want to talk about?

Best wishes from everyone on the forum