Ding, Ding, Round 3 - KO?

Good afternoon Skinthubby and welcome to the Forum,

Thank you for such a detailed first post and I’m really sorry to hear what you and the family have been going through. It sounds like you’ve all been through a traumatic experience and I’m not surprised this has left you feeling exposed and physically sick.

I can see from your post that you and the family have really been supportive towards your wife and long term, this emotional and practical support can really help your wife on her recovery journey.  I can understand that it may feel controlling to now take control of the finances, but through removing access to funds your wife will not be able to gamble and this is a great step in her recovery journey. 

Sadly, you got to see first-hand how devastating a gambling addiction can be, you witnessed your wife breaking down and it must have been really hard to hear her mentioning thoughts of ending her life. So in taking control of the finances you are helping her to take those first steps to recovery.

It’s great that your wife has signed up for GA, but I’d like you to know that there is other support available too, including free one to one support.  But our support is not just for your wife but also for you and the family too. With this in mind I do recommend that both you and your wife call our HelpLine on 0808 8020 133 or talk to us via our NetLine.

We’d be able to go through all the support available; we could help your wife with self excluding from all gambling companies licensed in Great Britain, or go through other tools such as blocking software she can install on all her devices.

But for you and the family we can offer support too, so you don’t have to feel alone in this and you can talk to people who understand the devastating impacts a gambling addiction can have, we are aware how it can erode trust and lead to strains in a relationship. Our one to one support is not just for those suffering with a gambling addiction but also to support affected others during such a difficult time.

With is all being so raw and with so many thoughts running through your mind, such as should you leave, what next,  is the house at risk if she relapses?  one of our advisers would be able to listen and offer support and advice in taking steps that best protect the family and also best support your wife too.

It’s such a difficult time for you all, and we’d like to be able to support you more.

Kind regards 

ChrisK

Forum Admin

Hi skinthubby, I'm so sorry to read your story but your post is amazing because it details so well what's happened. Me, I'm your wife 6 months into recovery  and I'm sure my husband could identify with quite a lot of what you've said. Do not stress about taking the finances away from her it's what she needs to start recovery money in her hands is temptation and believe me early into recovery there is massive temptation craving almost. Time, Access, Money.... break the triangle....no money....no access to websites( have you used gamstop to block her access?).... Sounds easy I know but those 2 things break the triangle she can't gamble her mind will start to heal, the addiction is destructive ,if it makes you feel any betterthat your wife is not alone in the things she's done I'll tell you some of mine. Lied so much had to write things down so I could remember what I said, changed passwords on bank accounts so my husband couldn't access them telling him....I'll look after finances you work long hours one less thing for you to worry about our money is safe. Spend hours deleting computer history, emails about credit card statements etc so that he wouldn't know id maxed it out to 15k when he thought we didn't owe anything. Spent every penny spare we had mostly on the site you mentioned maxed our overdraft and the thing which I feel most ashamed of ...My husband put 10 k in premium bonds for our future I accessed it after I found his passwords and used 5k. My mind was so twisted I still believed I was going to win BIG pay everything off put the money back I took and no one would ever know !! The addiction lies keeps you going makes you sly sneaky deceitful manipulating. But know this...obviously your wife is a different person to me but story quite similar ....I did not set out to deliberately do all this I had no intention to hurt anyone I couldn't get out of what I was doing it spiralled out of control...I knew what I was doing was wrong I couldn't stop. I was stopped in my tracks early in the morning 5th June this year my husband woke me up 'where has the premium bond money gone? " my life reset I spilt it all whilst crying gasping for air told him everything the relief was huge for me ...not for him when I gave him log in details and he found out the full horror of what I'd done. 6months next week down the line GA every week, 8 weeks counselling right at the start provided by Gamcare, I log in here every day read ,keep diary, post to try help people, listen to all advice given to me. Am I cured...no addiction is for life .... But I've arrested it and by doing all these things in hoping to stay gamble free for life keep barriers up keep blocks in place. Keep in the forefront of your mind your sentence which ended ...she is amazing!. She's not a monster she lost her way badly. But be firm if you say as my husband has that he won't go through this again...she has to know you mean it( if that is now you feel ?) I know my husband means it so the balls in my corner firmly. We have a 16 year old son and he has been amazing I will always be humbled by the way he handled it be say "the only be couldn't cope with is it I said I was dying, he said " your my mum I love you I'll help you" wow how could I not try everything ??. Take care of you as well don't be afraid to ask for help, hope you all recover

Hi SH.

Round 3 youve had the team talk from the corner and you have to come out knowing that you have to monitor everything from now on and control her finances.

Not easy. If shes not willing to hand everything over and seek some serious help you have a real problem on your hands.

You all need to learn she effectively has a drug addiction...she didnt do it with an evil laugh to hurt you all...if anything her addicted mind thought it would help and bail her out .

You can all never be complacent again. NOBODY can give her money and you will have to do all important transactions yourself. The default position is that you can assume she will try and gamble a few quid here and there.

She lives on a sandwich allowance and you want receipts. She cant have anything without clearing it with you and providing receipts.

You can get financial advice and you can only afford to pay back an amount after a living allowance which you are allowed. It may be helpful to discuss addiction if you are willing to talk about that with financial representatives.. The CAB are very helpful.

Its a delicate situation...she needs love but she also need carefully worded reality.

Its not a question of if...she needs informing that she cant gamble again or it will have serious consequences. YOU will have to make sure she is not welcome at the pawnbrokers ,payday loan companies and most importantly the gambling dens...you will need access to her credit file to make sure she is not seeking loans.

With love and family support she can do this but you can never be complacent again as a family. This can be made history but its a lifelong commitment to abstention now.

Youve got to talk to her though and work through the exercises. It is a mental illness and her mind will heal if she is ready for a full recovery.

HOWEVER there is no day when you can say yipee its all over... are you ready? because you will have to ensure things are ticking over ok for a long long time.

Its your decision but she deserves a chance. Gambling addicts are not inherently bad people...they have an addiction and illness

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Guys, thanks for the posts and not just short comments. I’m used to forums with hobbies and such. I’m a bit overwhelmed with everything right now but thank you so much. I didn’t expect such replies and will take all the advice I can and visit often. I need to breath and this has already helped.

Thanks again

I’m so sorry to hear what you and your family are going through but I’ll keep my post short.

Ensure to get GamStop and sign her up. 

Take control of all of her accounts and ensure to have access to any online banking or PayPal accounts. If anything, get whatever you can shut down.

It sounds like your wife needs some loving support. My partner stuck with me and took control of my finances and for the past 8 months it’s reassuring to know someone is keeping me financially stable and gamble free.

I hope everything works out, it’s been a terrible year for everyone but we are all here to help and support no matter what.

Yes, its been bad enough of a year with covid. I had to leave a permanent job for a very difficult new casual job, had to self-isolate recently with no pay etc and my mother who lives in an old folk’s type home with no visitors allowed, has just been robbed of 2k. My son has a relatively new health condition and my daughter is in a very difficult final year of university. now this!

Its not the end of the world. So close to Christmas and all the money for gifts and the rest - has been gambled. Its just very difficult. I know none of this was intentional and my wife is distraught, constantly in tears. I can support her but can’t bring myself to forgive her yet. very difficult. Its only been a few days.

As covid and socialising etc, all I really have to look forward to is a wee drink at the weekend and even that cant be done now. Im not a violent man or dependant on alcohol or anything, but do have a quick temper and a taking a drink wont help – so I wont. I know this is nothing but I cant even have a small pleasure after a hard week. That’s not to mention our relationship, love life, down time relaxing together as a couple/family, during lockdown/xmas etc. all small things really but a knock-on effect. Now I have to deal with finances, shopping, monitoring her – a bit like having another child and making sure she is safe, with an illness I don’t understand.

Its not about me really and my family will just have to deal, but a thought just came to me. We live in a deprived area and Im not trying to paint a picture or stereotyping gamblers in general – and I’m probably over imagining that my areas gamblers are older, single, undesirable types that are gamblers of horses and dog racing, hard drinking etc. and were sending a vulnerable, very nice woman to these conditions?

When I was a kid in the 80s, I had to go into pubs and bookies and ask for my grandad – to get wages from him for my gran, long story but didn’t have a dad and he was like mine. This reminds me of the dirty spit n sawdust bars – he was a dominoes and dog gambler. My uncles were horse gamblers and were violent which led to divorce etc. I witnessed this as a child.

I’m rambling again, but I grew up in Glasgow and now live in Ireland and the only family I have here is my mother, who I brought here to look after and is now a victim of gambling too. My wife is also from Glasgow and her family and I don’t speak. We actually moved here to get away from them. so, I left my family and friends for my wife 26 years ago, she and my own family is my life. My heart is broken and life has changed significantly.

I need to think of her, ive been through 5 difficult years of therapy, for childhood problems and understand the “not cured” and 1 day at a time process. Now im worried about being worried and what were doing to our children. Completely lost with a brave face!

Yes we know what you are going through and fully understand. You write things very well and its clear you have the moral strength to offer help and support a during recovery.

Millions of people from all walks of life have been affected by this. So in that sense you are not alone, the odd one out or a strange family.  we cant really stereotype gamblers like the past. Deregulated gambling is scandalous and a national disgrace...its even on television overnight which beggars belief until we understand that the people supposed to protect us are treating it as a major source of income tax

Please take pride in the small steps of talking things through  for example prioritising repayments to your mother. It builds steps for an organised way through this, routines and organised living which are crucial

Its how you want to deal with it. My view is that the credit card companies who lent her money can wait but you need professional financial advice on this. They may have to freeze interest and in certain circumstances have to accept as little as a pound per month until you get back into the flow

Your wife can build some self respect by showing what she is prepared to do...try a GA meeting...take on some overtime at work. You all need to keep talking about it when ready. 

She will be ready and she needs to do the exercises like talking through a gambling session. It will sound like a story about fairies,  and four leaved clover but it will help her realise how ill and addicted she was

I know its easy for me to say but you have to put the losses behind you. Its gone and as you have to look to the future. Obviously the virus pandemic has put massive extra strain on us but you will have to wind down after work and keep a balance of the simple pleasures in life.

A key point is your wife should not be looking for full trust again...some dignity and self respect yes....but trust is not what she wants. the trust is a small price compared to an addiction which was killing her.

Sound as though you have a great family and they can all have a role to play in offering love and moral support...they can all help and it doesnt have to be about money.

It can be done and you will reach a better place.

The main thing is you have all faced it, you are aware and its no longer a secret she was keeping

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Hi skinthubby 

I agree with joydivider, don’t pay the credit cards. It’s part of her recovery to face what she has done and to call and negotiate. Supposedly you can’t gamble on a credit card.

Stepchange are a good charity that can give advice. Gambling debts come last after living expenses and everyday life. It’s not for you to sort this for her. 
Keep your finances separate if you can. Credit reports will show loans and cards.

GA and gamcare will help, sign up to gamstop in your name too. 
Gamanon can also help you for support, all f&f of gamblers who have experience of what you’re going through.

Get some support it will help you process what is going on and what you need to do to look after yourself.

skinthubby you do not need to waste all of your savings paying off her gambling debt

just declare her bankrupt or get her down the insolvency route she sounds like she is up to her eyeballs in it

theres no point in you both suffering for her mistakes if anything a lack of credit and fresh start will probably do her the world of good 

The comments regarding not paying the debts myself. Ill need to take more advice etc but the last time when we (she) went through debt management, as I understood it:

We could lose the house if she files for bankruptcy and my income and savings are taken into consideration if she were to go through debt management again?

For years I’ve been under this impression.

So basically, if she goes to debt management again, my income and savings will mean – that the old 20k debt we are paying will be reinvestigated and adjusted to include the new debt, but my savings, income and capital from our home will also be taken into consideration – meaning they will take our total income to calculate our living costs – and take the rest to pay the debts?

The last time round I was on a low income and benefits, we had a car repayment etc and on paper, we are now better off financially, so im assuming as she is my legal partner, joint mortgage etc. I am also responsible; I do have a different bank account but I also remember they asked about my income!

This can only mean, that they will take my income and adjust the new debt, including the old 20k and take even more from us?

The major stressor, other than the trust issues and the recovery ahead is that our (my) savings must be used, our home is at risk and im now working to pay for her gambling and keep us in survival mode.

bankruptcy would be a godsend - if that’s how it works! But if they will take my income and savings – id rather pay the current debt and soldier on.

it sounds messy and you will need to go and speak to a professional insolvency practitioner 

but generally the system shouldn't be able to bankrupt both of you , there may be issues with joint accounts / mortages etc but again thats what the professionals will need to advise on

it may be the case that she's going to need to sign the house over to you , put the debt in her name as it is hers not yours 

Hi ,I think in all this advice you mustn't forget that in everything there are grey areas. You must do what is right for you and your family. I fully understand the ' taking responsibility ' for your actions but I'm unable to work so my husband is sorting out the debt. Obviously I feel guilty about this but when I stopped working as a nurse and had ill health retirement I never treated the money as mine we paid off credit cards etc etc and yes I messed up big time but what I'm trying to say there is not one size fits all. I'm happy that my recovery is not being compromised by strictly speaking not repaying gambling debt I do take full responsibility . Does that make sense ? The advice is not set in stone, you and your family have to choose a way forward that suits you. I'm sure that my post will evoke people to say I'm wrong but what I'm trying to say is me and my family are comfortable with the route we've chosen and I am under no illusions that stepping off that route will be a fatal mistake. Best wishes

Good morning Skinthubby.

It's great to see the support you are getting from here; in regards to the financial situation and the debt I'd really recommend getting some free debt advice so any decision you make moving forward, is the best one for you. 

We can recommend:

Free, independent money advice from organisations including:

• National Debtline – 0808 808 4000, www.nationaldebtline.org
• Money Advice Service – 0300 500 5000, www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk
• Citizens Advice – www.citizensadvice.org.uk
• StepChange – 0800 138 1111, www.stepchange.org/
• PayPlan – 0800 280 2816,  www.payplan.com/gamcare/

Kind regards

ChrisK

Forum Admin

Thank you for all the advice and support, I really appreciate it. My wife is currently in her first GA meeting as I type, unfortunately its all men and that was a worry for her and me. We will see if there are other nights or locations, im sure someone will approach her at the meeting.

She also spoke to someone from this forum today on the phone and is acting on advice. Unfortunately, they are not funded for our location – Northern Ireland but we will work it out.

The bankruptcy route is something we will look into also. It’s a lot to deal with and we have our busy work etc to be getting on with. The timing is never right when these things or anything happens.

Thanks again