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Cant think straight

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#1 Posted on:
Sun, 30/07/2017 - 21:43

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

my husband gambled and lied for several years until he admitted it to his parents who bailed him out out of his debts of thousands and kept in secret from me until he continued, new debts escalated fo he came to me. I sought him advice, me advice and tried to heal finances and relationship (I was pregnant). I thought he was managing and finances were found several years on and now find that this was also a lie and debts have mounted up again - the debts themselves have significant impact and I can't see s resolution with them. Neither can I see a resolution for the years of lying / manipulation. There are two children involved and I feel trapped and I do not have luxury of time to make the right or rather best decisions to protect them and me further. I feel huge pressure and feel like I'm sinking- I can't function normally and be the best mum to my kids as I'm so stressed meanwhile oh seems completely normal now he's had to own up as I saw paperwork and I almost feel judged by him that I'm still reeling. He hasn't made me feel any true sense he is remorseful. I feel sickened and angry he's done this and feel it's defeated me and not him. I recognise addiction is an illness but I don't accept this fully absolves him nor do I deserve this life. It wasn't what I would have chosen for me and it's not what I want for my children. I feel broken. 

Posted on:
Mon, 31/07/2017 - 07:07

gamparentanon

Joined:
2016-04-22

Hi, parent of a gambler here so know what you and his parents have been and are now going through again.  You have done the right thing by coming here and now I urge you to pick up the telephone and call Gamcare for further advice and support. I would also recommend you tell his parents as well as this is a nightmare situation to try and keep secret and tackle on your own. He sounds like he is digging his heels in and has reached that don't-care stage of who he is hurting.  I know it sounds really hard but you need to build some sort of strength up to try and take control of the finances if possible, make sure noone bails him out this time. It is difficult with children involved and only you know what his possible reactions will be but if you are worried get his parents thee when you are talking to him.  You and your kids are the most important thing and I hope you remain strong to cope with it.  If you get help and research your rights and how to protect yourself as well I think you can be ok.

Take care.

Posted on:
Mon, 31/07/2017 - 17:50

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Ive already called gamcare who suggested counselling but I am trapped as all my options are negative with no hsppy outcome. 

 

Hi thanks/ he did tell his parents but not local To us so not in position to provide that sort of help. Last time they blamed me also said must have driven him to it. This time not do much that way but their advice was not to think about it ! They don't seem to fully understand. 

If I don't try reduce the debt, monthly minimum commitments that are in joint names will be missed so I get a bad credit file .plus we have school fees that too late give notice on and are legally expected. He's at a point where he can't pay minimum not just his debt. 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Mon, 31/07/2017 - 20:05

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Ive already called gamcare who suggested counselling but I am trapped as all my options are negative with no hsppy outcome. 

 

Hi thanks/ he did tell his parents but not local To us so not in position to provide that sort of help. Last time they blamed me also said must have driven him to it. This time not do much that way but their advice was not to think about it ! They don't seem to fully understand. 

If I don't try reduce the debt, monthly minimum commitments that are in joint names will be missed so I get a bad credit file .plus we have school fees that too late give notice on and are legally expected. He's at a point where he can't pay minimum not just his debt. 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Mon, 31/07/2017 - 20:34

Cynical wife

Joined:
2015-06-23

Hi, 

I think that's the point: it's about you getting help for you to make things better for you. I can relate to feeling trapped and angry and defeated but your immediate problem is that you feel this way, your problem is the effect that he's having on you. That's why you need external help. Reach out and take it because you deserve it, because there are no white knights and no rescuers.

If he wants to help himself, the best route is via GA and there's a lot of practical advice about limiting access to gambling. Leave him to fix him, you worry about fixing you so that you can be there for you and for your children (age appropriate). It's not your job to fix anyone else.

CW

Posted on:
Mon, 07/08/2017 - 23:10

Goodbye my husband

Joined:
2017-08-06

Hi Looktothefuture

Thank you for your reply on my topic "finally asking for a divorce after 23 years" I'm still slightly confused about where to respond to posts etc .

I was amazed reading your story how similar our husbands are in terms of showing no remorse. My husband once said to me, when I was complaining about all the money he had gambled over the years "Tough.....it's gone and forgotten now" That is the problem, he has never ever said sorry properly, never been remorseful and never admitted he had a problem. He also thinks it's my problem too. This is the reason I have finally ended my marriage, because unlike other addicts on here, he has never wanted help. 

Being honest your husband sounds a million miles from being ready to change. Like mine he seems oblivious to the hurt he's caused you. This may change but in my husband's case it didn't. He also had no respect for me and spoke to me so disrespectfully in front of the children. You need to be very clear on this and tell him you will not put up with that in front of your children or any other time. Do not let him bully you into signing anything. Why should you lose equity when the debts are his?

You spoke about his lack of concern to your health problems, this is very familiar to me. I once thought I was having a heart attack and he refused to call an ambulance and called me a 'drama queen' I had in fact lost 2.5 pints of blood and spent five days in hospital. 

You ask whether you should stay as you think he'd be a bad influence during access visits if you split. He is already a bad influence and now this is 24/7 rather than just on weekend visits. 

i cannot tell you to leave him but listening to your story I would certainly consider it. You deserve so much more than this.

Posted on:
Wed, 09/08/2017 - 10:41

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

 

Thankyou for your reply. This is what my head trlls me too. Then I feel worried for the children being with him without me and also being without him most of the time as they have good relationship with him as obviously too young to know the truth and my son in particular is close to him. Although is frightened when dad is in a temper. I've been clear about boundaries, he appears to agree. Then uses words like "tough"and you've get to move on as can't dwell on it . In my situation it looks as if I'll have to sign mortgage advance as he can't settle debts any other way - turned down for debt consolidation loans etc sand he is wasting so much money paying off the multiple existing loans -it means debts six off and school fees not paid. I keep deciding I've got to go and then think I can't help kids if I do- access is my real fear. 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Wed, 09/08/2017 - 11:33

Goodbye my husband

Joined:
2017-08-06

Have you actually taken advice from anyone other than reading this forum?  Sorry if you have already said so, I can't remember.

If I am perfectly honest with myself I think I made my children the excuse for staying with him (not suggesting you are doing that) because I was scared to go it alone. It is a terrifying thought. My daughter was two and my son four and a half (just started school) when we split up the first time. I understand so well your line "Although is frightened when dad is in a temper" You must ask yourself is this right for your son? Should a small child ever feel frightened? My son was and I know that I should have left many years ago. The first few years of my son's life were spent hearing a lot of anger. When my daughter was born it had calmed down a lot and then when she was two I threw him out as he started his games again. By then my son had witnessed more than he should. 

So at 11 (daughter) and 14 (son) I am full of regret for waiting this long. If I'd done it years ago we wouldn't be going through this trauma now, now that they are at an age where they will never forget the trauma of the split. At the very worst and damaging time for my son, soon to begin GCSE studies. He is extremely shy, lacks confidence and finds social situations uneasy. However, he has lovely friends, works incredibly hard at school and is achieving. With us at home he us funny and an amazingly great son. Yet I wonder daily did his past experiences change how he might have been.

I don't know what the answer is for you but please take heed and do not turn a blind eye as I did. If access frightens you then this can be discussed and sorted easily. Nothing, and I mean nothing is insurmountable!! Your husband has caused/is causing untold hurt yet his attitude is "so what, stop whinging" 

Go and get some advice, it is just that, advice. You don't need to follow it, but you have it and will know your rights. Do you work? I guess your children are at private school....would you consider state school? It may be a way of lessening your outgoings and if it means that you could split (if it came to that) up with less hardship then it is worthwhile considering. A little child in state school living with one parent and no fear is a better outcome.

Take advice before you release equity, it's his mess. What then when he has gambled equity release?  Don't make this easy for him.

Good luck

Posted on:
Wed, 09/08/2017 - 11:37

Lethe

Joined:
2016-12-10

Hi

Mr L went through a phase of suggesting we move when his debts were secretly at their peak and we actually looked into it when it all came to light. I refused in the end. Didn't see why I should lose my home and downsize for his stupidity along with the worry that he might just do it all over again (which he did). I would be very reluctant to secure gambling or any other unsecured debt on my home. That way lies potential eviction.  What's to stop your husband doing it all over again and demanding another slice of the equity to bail him out? The debts are his reponsibilty. He ran them up, he can figure out how to repay them. CAB, Payplan and Stepchange would be a good starting point for him. They will negotiate affordable repayments and hopefully get interest and charge frozen for the duration of any management plan.

Telling you to move on and wanting it swept under the carpet is classic manipulation. Don't fall for it. He lost the right to call the shots the instant he took out the first loan behind your back. You have every right to the fine detail of what's been going on. If he won't provide it and hand over control of the finances to you, it's another red flag among the many he's already waving.

He won't give up the gambling until he wants to. If he doesn't, you and the kids are in for more of the same. No-one can advise on what you should do but it's a toxic atmosphere already and it won't get any better unless and until he decides he wants to stop which may be a long way off if ever. Think hard about the kind of atmosphere you and they deserve now and ongoing. Put you and them first.

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 09:44

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Hi thanks all - yes I've sought legal advice From a solicitor (very expensive!!) and spoken to financial advisers, citizens advice and the payplan lines (variety) . I know as a result that ny husband doesn't qualify for any payment plan as too much equity in house and I'm at point where he can't pay mortgage let alone e debts- thus I will lose house of status who remains. I have choice to either minimise damage to me by having to countersigned equity release and ensure all cards and l And are settled and closed and retain control of finances (he has given me access and he cannot now access). I have considered moving schools- the area we are in though means are a few schools that are ok but I cannot afford a property here at all other than one we in- no option to downsize unless only two bedrooms which not appropriate for my aged kids as one boy and one girl and even then they are in areas known to be "dodgey" which doesn't inspire me to think it will be better. I can see I'd have to relocAte to buy somewhere that offers a bit of security which is possible but October is when apply for secondary state and my daughter will then be st bottom of pile for states if move as can't imagine be sold Snd in by then and there is wide opportunity for inadequate secondaries. I'm trying to weigh up what risks are if staying and of going....   majority time with children relationship is positive / he not here that much either. He is says by right things like he needs help (on counselling waiting list) and I can have full access to accounts and he won't have but as we speak debts are there and there is no money until end m th to pay them or anything v else Snd so either they bounce or I pay. If they bounce, he's even less likely to clear them with mortgage advance as credit rating will decline and they will say no. In that case there is no option but to sell but solicitor says that actually most likely is debts Re will put charge to n house and force sale but all the while it doesn't sell their interest rate goes up. Unless I release money with him on mortgage, house will be lost. 

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 11:01

Merry go round

Joined:
2017-06-08

Hi look to the future, I'm trying to work out how to do/ say things that will help. Do you want to stay with him? In same house? Same status re schools? If only way is to release equity then that's what you should do. BUT only do this if all his salary comes directly to you in your own account, you then pay all bills and mortgage. Tell your bank and mortgage company that he is not allowed access. I did this. All loans were in his name, direct debits went from my account. Any gambling that he did was from money he held onto when he was given cash for lunch etc. I thought it would be safe to open isa in his name with 'gift' he got from work. Fatal mistake. We all learn lessons along the way. My solution is no money at all, he agrees........ if you want to leave him then you have to be strong, change schools, maybe rent. ...... or downsize together, .... there are many ways to release the pressure. I think you need to talk and gauge whether he is committed to stopping. Main priority is control of finances, open all post, salary to you today. 

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 17:39

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Thankyou x

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 18:08

Lethe

Joined:
2016-12-10

Hi again

The amount of equity in the house shouldn't affect a debt management plan which is an informal arrangement for the unsecured debts which is reviewed regularly. Have you spoken to your mortgage lender? It may be they can help you come to some arrangement with that. If you do go down the equity release route you must make sure it's as difficult as possible for him to get any further credit which means you must have access to and review his credit reports from all three agences very regularly. Mr L has lodged notices of correction with all the agencies stating that he does not wish to be offered or extended any credit even if he applies for it and/or appears to qualify. I also pay for an alert service which will email me should anything change in between the monthly report updates. Unfortunately it's only with one agency but it's better than nothing.

I can't advise on the schools other than to say maybe go and look at them? Statistics alone won't paint an accurate picture. Ask about provision for more able gifted/talented pupils and what the recent results for this group are.

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 19:29

Goodbye my husband

Joined:
2017-08-06

I think Lethe is right. We have a lot of equity and my husband used a debt management plan a few years ago. I'd thought this was because our business was in trouble but now know it was his gambling addiction. 

How long has Mr L been clean Lethe? He seems 100% totally committed to beating his addiction and very dedicated to you. 

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 19:38

Goodbye my husband

Joined:
2017-08-06

Sorry I forgot to say, the only thing that. On earns me about you releasing equity is that you say your husband isn't remotely remorseful and is acting as though you being upset is an overreaction. You felt he was judging you for being blindsided by his actions. That does not sound good at all. You really need more assurances from him that he will do everything you ask. Releasing equity is such an easy way out for him it won't serve as much of a deterrent for future mistakes. 

Posted on:
Thu, 10/08/2017 - 21:23

Lethe

Joined:
2016-12-10

Hi GMH

We f&f can never be 100% sure but as far as I can tell he's been gf just over three and a half years. That's after he'd been bailed out but went behind my back to double the debt and con the kids out of their savings along with worse I can't go in to here. I think he shocked himself with what he was capable of. He certainly shocked me. Even after all the above I caught him sticking small change into a FOBT a few months after it all came to light. He hasn't carried cash routinely since.

There have been bumps along the way in the shape of offers from casino sites (these companies are incredibly tenacious even after self exclusion) and entries on his credit reports but they've been explained and sorted and as far as I can tell he remains committed. All the barriers remain in place and he attends GA weekly. He knows the consequences if he goes back and he's under no illusion I will tolerate a return but that's all I can do. It's up to him.

Posted on:
Fri, 11/08/2017 - 18:23

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

when i I say not remorseful- I mean I've seen no hint of emotions n or compassion. Previously he's been tearful. This time it's dry matter of fact and he appears to function normally   all the hthe while I'm feeling awful and feel like I have the burden of it all especially the responsibility of trying work out what's best for children in this situation. If it gets mucked up again we won't be able relocAte without huge disruption- hence I think is it better give up ? Ortry to make it work here?  I am ultimately really sad as I feel I e lost chance of meahaving a true life partner who will be with me every step and vice Versa- and I can't honestly tell if he feels anything for me - and I'm in such shock after this has happened again that I can't tell you how I feel about him and if I'll ever feel anything other than cheated and despondent. I feel like each time it's happened and he's done anything that hurts me I'm less here. 

 

My husband says he qualified for a repayment plan but they said he was unlikely yet lender to agree to it due to equity plus they said that it would damage his credit rating and prevent him or risk him not being able to get affordable rate on our mortgage in two years when fixed term is up and we either need to negotiate new deal with current provider or get new one. Admittedly this is all info he is telling me as the payplan people refused talk to me despite me begging as debts in his name- wouldn't even give me hypothetical advice. Do you think this is untrue? 

I keep listing things he can do and urging him to be proactive he hinself. I've said that if he's sincere in his aim to safe guard himself and family he will investigate all avenues himself and ask all he can. He claims he can't think of all the questions I do. He thinks I can't be paid d his salary and even if did this wouldn't stop him getting credit as he only applies online and doesn't necessarily give all the facts. Can he self exclude from getting credit ? If do- how? Can his bank account have me added as a controller so to speak but remain inhis name but he has no power without me? I have his two main accounts and online access and he now does not- but he can undo this at any point. Or set up a secret credit/ loan elsewhere. I have access to Experian via Monry saving website but do t want have to pay for access to three or is this affordable? I'm also worrying that equity release makes it easy but it's at point where he get dragged down immediately with him if he can't settle debts. 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Fri, 11/08/2017 - 20:00

Compulsive Gambler

Joined:
Before 2009

Your husband needs to stop thinking and just giving you the facts, in writing or by passing control to you

Where this hasn't been possible for me to do I have made the calls, on speaker phone with my wife in the room, 

I signed up to experian, went through everything listed on my file and wrote down every account detail, password, log in possible

We wrote down every debt, interest rate and current status/ Default-Overdue- etc

We worked through the repayments in priority order based on us being a family again in the future ( I am very fortunate in that regard, that I still have some hope)  

Because of the level of debt, my wife chose to let me stay in the marital home (sleeping on the floor of the lounge or shed, she doesn't care which!)  I looked into staying in a tent and any other options but ultimately the floor was/is the cheapest

We have now got a lot of debt owing but it has at least stablised and my wife has chosen to transfer some of the debt into her name as it is via 0% balance transfer.  I actually dont like this but understand it is her choice as she wants the best outcome for the children. In return I have also closed all avenues of credit bar £500 of overdraft, which will be cleared next month and then the overdraft closed. 

My credit file alerts are set up directly to my wife - they go to a phone and ipad that are number locked so only she can access.  I had to sell my golf clubs and fishing gear on ebay and with some of the money generated we spent £25 on a safe onto which all the codes, passwords etc are written.  I don't know the code to access the safe and my wife has hidden the override keys at her parents house.

I understand for yourself there might be an option of equity release but I think there are some questions that you need to ask about your longer term needs/wants - this is about you now.

Your husband needs to start practically giving you what you need, forget the emotion for a moment (if you can) get practical. There will be plenty of time to process everything else later.  If your husband will struggle to think of the questions to ask then again having everything written down, you can prewrite some of the questions you want answers to.  Don't except excuses. you need facts and then some space to think..

best wishes 

Posted on:
Fri, 11/08/2017 - 21:10

Lethe

Joined:
2016-12-10

He may be right about the equity. Looking back we transferred the house into my sole name after the first lot of debt he ran up so he had nothing to declare as an asset second time round. I can't see why Payplan can't confirm something like that to you as a general principle though, alternatively maybe CAB could confirm it to you? If he does take out a DMP it will definitely trash his credit rating. It won't stop the lenders issuing defaults which they can and will do to protect their legal position. Personally I was relieved that Mr L's rating tanked. It dried up further access to credit.

Re. His salary. Some firms won't pay into an account that doesn't have the employee's name on it. Mr L has his paid into a basic, no frills account with no OD options. Several banks offer them but they don't publicise them as they make nothing on them. I hold the card and transfer the money to my account on receipt.

Secret bank accounts will eventually show on the credit reports which are all available free (Noddle - callcredit, Clearscore  - Equifax and Experian via MSE). Look into email alerts which let you know if anything happens in between updates.

Self exclusion from credit applications infuriatingly doesn't seem to exist but he can place notices of correction with each agency saying he doesn't wish to be offered credit even if he applies for it. Look into CIFAS notices as well.

Posted on:
Sat, 12/08/2017 - 15:55

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Thankyou - that's a helpful lot of info to look into. A basic account makes sense. The mortgage is the complicated thing- I checked with solicitor and I can't have it transferred to my name as an asset as if he contributes to household and are married then the creditors can still put charge on house as it's seen as avoiding debt liability and i would be seen as an accomplice. Also- I can't pay the mortgage in my own right.

even if he clears debt and then we sell and downsize/ relocate to buy outright and put in my name with no existing debts as sll settled... if he gets new debts then I am still liable and they can put charge on house as his salary contributes to upkeep of house/ utilities etc. To me that seems crazy. It means we can't safe guard me and kids at all even if he is willing now but then relapses... house still at risk. Only thing that offers protection legally is a divorce and not being part of household.

 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Sun, 13/08/2017 - 17:48

Cynical wife

Joined:
2015-06-23

Hi, 

I'm not convinced about your liability for future debt, it was also an issue for me. I insisted that the flat was transferred into my name although he wouldn't sign anything other than the transfer i.e. to say why. As far as I am concerned, the flat  is mine because he took and spent family money (my inheritance and kids' savings) and the transfer of his share of the equity was by way of restitution. If he amasses future debt, he cannot claim to be a home owner and I have done what I can to protecdt myself. I wrote to the bank confirming that I would not be participating in any future loans or overdrafts, and he has the Notices of Correction that Lethe mentioned on his credit reports.

It's grim. Get help for you to cope, don't go it alone.

CW

 

Posted on:
Mon, 14/08/2017 - 14:23

Looktothefuture

Joined:
2017-07-30

Solicitor was adamant if he contributes to household even if I own house outright that charge can be put on house. 

Just as an added bit of funmy step father who I have irregular contact with since he and my mum divorced asked me if I was making home welcoming enough for husband and cooking him meals ready for when he gets home .. I'm I boring him etc? Else why would he do this? Someone who is well educated and supposedly likely to be on "my side" makes this judgement. What a horrible mess I'm inhis parents have said similar things in past. I think so many people make stupid judgements and I can't tell who will until I confide. Even close friends are surprised and sympathise with his illness vs wholeheartedly empathising with me. It's a lonely place. Grim is how I feel it is totally. He is angry at solutions such as blocking his credit with the agencies as he says this will mean when we have to remortgage he will be blocked. I suggested he be proactive and contact agencies asking if he can block access to credit in his sole name but not jointly - I will only ever participate in joint credit application if it is to remortgage at end of our tie in period. If house is transferred to me I can't pY mortgage based on my solo income so if he messed up I will be oneceith poor credit and be forced to sell .  I don't think there is anything I can do that truly fixes things unless I divorce. 

 

 

 

 

Posted on:
Mon, 14/08/2017 - 19:15

Cynical wife

Joined:
2015-06-23

 

Sorry to hear this last. 

Our crisis happened two years ago, I'm not aware that he's since gambled and I'd like to say that his stopping gambling solved all problems. It hasn't and our relationship has remained very strained. Partly because he has continued to think and behave like an addict but that's not the full story. I have recently started to look harder than I would like to at my own responses and my own conditioning and to try to change them. There's a lot of literature out there on codependency (eg Robin Norwood or Pia Mellody or Melanie Beattie) ie what happens to people growing up with addiction or family dysfunction and the effect that it has on their choice of partner and the dynamics of their relationships. IME, it matters and it needs exploring but I wasn't ready to hear that two years ago. 

The responses of your family and his tell you about them but these responses are not instructions to you and they do not label you. Better for you to get the help and support that you need to help you to look after yourself in a healthy way.

CW

Posted on:
Tue, 15/08/2017 - 08:16

Merry go round

Joined:
2017-06-08

Hi I have been to my meeting and there was young woman who'd been to see someone about their mortgage and there is something like a tenancy agreement that safeguards you, sorry I didn't catch what it was called. Also my friends mother died recently and she had done the same, house was left to kids, father can stay in it til he dies as part of this tenancy agreement. They knew nothing of this, mother told my friend just before she died that he was always spending and getting into debt, so that's how they got around it. Maybe a financial adviser or mortgage broker will have better more up to date info? I was very intrigued myself. I don't know ins and outs but maybe this is another's avenue to look at.   As for family, my mother in law just avoid it, she must think he's cured. I have no idea whether she knows about his continued gambling she just talks about herself and talks about me behind my back. His sister doesn't speak to me at all. My parents know but both 80 & 82. What can you do? People don't understand, I think his family knew before I married him and don't want him knocking at their door.            As for your husbands credit when renegotiating mortgage, I don't get it, loans show up, debt, cc that will affect it. My cg consolidated and used interest free cc, transfer balances, etc. Just to be able to cope. He had a good job so it was manageable. I don't really have anymore advice on money. Others have better knowledge than me. Good luck!

Posted on:
Tue, 15/08/2017 - 09:09

Cynical wife

Joined:
2015-06-23

Tenants in common (nothing to do with renting). It's where more than one person owns the equity in a property (may or may not be subject to a mortgage) and each person owns his or her separate share. It's documented, usually by a Declaration of Trust, who owns what share. The Declaration of Trust is private and need not be produced to the Land Registry. It operates between you and he but would not bind existing lenders or creditors. It might be worth asking your Solicitor about producing one that refers to the gambling as an explanation for the equity being for you...if he'd sign it. My husband wouldn't but I have bank statements for the previous seven years and evidence of the telephone numbers lost through his gambling. If future creditors try to go against the flat, I'm as well armed as I can be to resist their claim.

Disclaimer: above is not a substitute for your own legal advice.

CW